Door Latches And The Future

[Z09SS]

This is something of a rant.

Discontinued parts are getting to be a bane of this car.

The days of getting new stock from the dealer are fast coming to an end and we have to consider, "what then?"

In the 5 years that the person I bought the car from and I have owned my '12; three of the four door latches have become door not-latches.

In all three cases, the usual sources had the part, but the first one to go (Left Rear) is now showing out of stock and discontinued. Left Front is showing discontinued at a couple of sources, but others still have some. Right Rear is showing out of stock most places. Right Front is in stock every place I've looked.

I asked on one of the Facebook groups if anyone had figured out what was breaking in these things and if anyone had successfully repaired one.

The answer to that is apparently, "I have plenty, give me a call."

Or, "I just got one for $20 out of a salvage yard."

Or, "It's easy, just replace it with a new one."

Notice how none of those responses answers the question?

It's a question that needs answered because, if we're going to keep these cars on the road, we're going to need the wear items. If the door latch is a wear item, that means we're going to need new ones or a way to repair the broken ones.

Now is the time to convince companies like Dorman that our cars are worth supporting, especially since so many parts are in common with the G8. Or we need to establish channels with the Australian aftermarket places so we can get parts here in a timely manner (and maybe without ridiculous shipping fees).

I am surprised at how hostile some people are to the idea of this. Mostly from the people whom appear to have a hoard of discontinued parts. But a new supply benefits them too, it means their supply is no longer finite and the sales can continue.

It reminds me of how sick I am of vendors taking over a venue and pushing out any attempt to work around the problems with a car.

Because, at the end of the day, when that vendor is out of parts, it won't be them coming up with a solution to a problem; it will be the enthusiast they're preying on. Their contribution to any community is transactional and neutral at best.

[Z09SS]

I have taken apart two of the dead latches that I have.

The great news is the latch assembly part is common front and back to each side!

Swap the plastic parts from a front latch to a back latch and you're in business! This will include the housing with the plug.

Just need a T15 to get the main housing apart and a T8 to get the plug housing.

Make note of the orientation of all the arms linkages and gears as you take things apart. Swap or omit as needed.

It's obvious once you have them apart. I'll take some pictures soon!

[elc32955]

Hey folks,

There's at least three different subjects covered in two different posts in this thread. While I'm by no means anything more then just the guy that set these forums up & helps keep order amongst a sea of randomness & chaos here's my take on these issues.

1) Door latches. Good news on the partial compatibility that was found on these. We need someone to figure out what is breaking and if there is a field solution for repair other than ye old forklift. Also the G8 and SS latches need to be checked for Caprice interchange. It would not surprise me at all if all three cars' latch sets could be swapped back and forth as they all ran down the same production line. This info would help greatly if there is a case to be made to a Dorman or eqvt. for a new product to consider.

2) Vendors monopolizing sales & inventory. Personally I've seen very little of this so far, however I'm not trying to say that there aren't people out there cache-stocking available parts for resale. Some items are more scarce then others, hence price increases into the stratosphere on low inventory items. When we bought these cars we (hopefully!) realized that since they were manufactured down under the replacement parts would suffer from the unobtanium syndrome at some point. Folks that had the financial means when presented with a good deal and the foresight to forecast 10-15 years out knew that these parts (for all 3 models, G8, Caprice, SS) would escalate in value at some point. The American way, buy low & sell high. A lot of times the last man standing is the salvage yard and, unfortunately, we end up having to get our screwdrivers out and go parts-hunting to get what we need. While the parts are still plentiful, in decent condition and not weathered beyond re-use. Naturally that will not last forever. After that point we get into "restoration". Hand the nice man a check, leave the amount blank. Wait 1 to 2 years to get the car back fixed, repaired or reconditioned.

3) Parts availability in general. Yes, we are going to have issues down the road, much worse than we see currently. Can we convince a company or companies (read - larger businesses then the ones that would fit in a mini-warehouse bay) to manufacture quality replacement parts on high-failure items for these cars? Parts that would fit the Caprice we've had limited success on so far. Two things that work against us are... A) The car was not produced in sufficient volumes to attract larger companies to make many after-market parts, and B) most companies expect return on investment in excess of what they put into the project to spool up (A&E costs, tooling if necessary, raw materials to manufacture from, etc...) and what it costs to make a run of product. And how much product will be sufficient? 500 latches, 2500 latches, 10,000 latches, you get the picture.

Dead inventory costs money each & every month it sits and depreciates. How can we, as individual car owners guarantee the Acme corporation they will see X amount of profit over Y years to incentivize them to fire up a production line?? Will an after-market provider just take our word for it that all door latches will at some point break and tool, produce, and inventory the parts so we can swap? They're going to want to see market research, MTBF statistics, actual sales figures from a provider (GM perhaps? Good luck on that!) so they have hard numbers to run a business case against. When I was working as an active manager in Public Safety a number of years back, I ran into this very scenario with General Electric and their product managers out of Lynchburg, VA for a certain technical improvement my agency wanted made to a public safety radio product line that GE could have successfully marketed nationwide. Did we get it? Of course not! We can make a case for a product or an accessory in academic discussion, but at the end of the day when a manufacturer wants guaranteed sales before PO's and orders to fire up a production line will be signed off, someone will have to either bankroll it or guarantee it over Mom's silver service as collateral. The days where a common-sense handshake guarantee was worth it's weight in gold-press latinum are over and done with. Accountants now rule the kingdom. No firm business case, no X-9 widget production line.

I'd love to crack the nut on the Australia parts inventory and availability. But, finding people at both ends to play is challenging. As a rule people don't want the hassle of customs inspections, international shipping, paying duty and/or tariff dollars, shipping delays, insurance for shipping half the globe away, I could go on & on. By the time the prices are increased enough to make it worthwhile for people to play, the individual parts are costly enough to make Rex the Wonder Horse choke! One idea I had in the back of my mind was that a enterprising salvage chain that would pay decent money for G8/SS/Caprice wrecks "may" be able to make a decent living stripping these wrecks down to the base frame - essentially the Elizabeth line in reverse - then cleaning up, re-bagging, and reselling the parts at a level to make money. It's just our bad luck that there's no consolidated nationwide yard (well, maybe LKQ could do it if they had a mindset to) that will bid enough to get a good enough national stockpile of these wrecked cars and then employ qualified people to dismantle and pull delicate parts without destroying half the car in the process. There is a reason that there's only a certain amount of U-pull-it yards out there, the general public thinks nothing of ruining a $500 car door in order to get a handle off. Seen it happen many times in salvage yards I've been to over the years. Saturday morning do-it yourself parts pullers can kill salvage yards with later-model expensive inventory.

The parts business can be brutal, ask anyone that's worked in it (and we have few people on this very forum that do!). Hypothetically if we were to approach a Dorman or equivalent company to ask for a run of door-latches, visor clips, door lock rods, gaskets, any one of a number of things that are now NLA through GM, how do we answer the above questions in order to make the 25-watt light bulb go off in the bean-counter's heads that says "Money to be made here!". Personally I have enough spare time to sorta-kinda run a forum system, but not enough to become a reverse GM product engineer and cost accountant. Unless you're in the business and can fluently speak the language (or have an advocate on your behalf), we're in the minor leagues unfortunately. Now if you were looking for a common failure item for say... a Ford Mustang that had a gazillion units on the road over umpteen model years (say 94-04 for sake of discussion), that changes things up a bit.

Is there a good answer to all of this? Chime in folks, I'd love to hear some more opinions rather then just myself in an echo chamber opining.

Thanks
Eric

[Z09SS]

I didn't mean to insinuate that anyone HERE was hoarding parts.

It's two or three people in the Facebook groups.

Their only contribution is to offer to sell parts.

While we do need people who have the parts to sell them to those who need them, they seem to get extra deference in these groups.

In my mind the entire point of forums, and thank you Eric for running this one, is for the enthusiast to connect to each other with solutions to problems and not just view each other as a way to make a buck.

[Z09SS]

More good news!

I notice that the backing plate on the lock/latch assembly has four threaded holes and we only need three for our cars.

This implies that the latching portion of the assembly is used in other cars!

Perhaps even cars that are still having parts made for them.

Not sure how to tell which cars, but I might hit the scrap yards soon.

[Sanford]

I didn't mean to insinuate that anyone HERE was hoarding parts.

It's two or three people in the Facebook groups.

Their only contribution is to offer to sell parts.

While we do need people who have the parts to sell them to those who need them, they seem to get extra deference in these groups.

In my mind the entire point of forums, and thank you Eric for running this one, is for the enthusiast to connect to each other with solutions to problems and not just view each other as a way to make a buck.

I might resemble the hoarding part, but I have not sold any of the stash and don’t intend to until I stop driving a Caprice and all of the fleet is gone. I intend on driving one until someone takes the keys from me or they become very unreliable due to electronics.

[Mooseman]

More good news!

I notice that the backing plate on the lock/latch assembly has four threaded holes and we only need three for our cars.

This implies that the latching portion of the assembly is used in other cars!

Perhaps even cars that are still having parts made for them.

Not sure how to tell which cars, but I might hit the scrap yards soon.

I just checked and the left front door actuator, Part Number: 92457529 is specific to only the 11-13 Caprice. Could not find the part number for right side. For the rear, the right Part Number: 92290818 says it fits the Caprice and G8. No number for left rear. Both numbers show a price on my Canadian web dealer which may mean they could be available but typically, Caprice parts were usually only available from the US so could be a red herring.

[CrashTestDummy]

Parts availability and crappy aftermarket in general are what have kept the Caprice on our 'short list' to sell before something does go wrong that can't be fixed. I DO, however, continue to really like the way the car looks and LOVE the way it drives and handles, which is what gives me pause on posting the car up for sale. That, and the absolutely stupid environment the new and used car market is at the moment.

Luckily, we don't drive our 9C1 that much, which helps. I really need an appliance car that they've made a billion of, and the body style hasn't changed much over the years, but life's too short to be driving 'any old car'.