Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Discussion on wheel & tire issues
Navy Lifer
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Location: Canton GA

notes on brakes

Post by Navy Lifer » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:41 am

data below from Rock Auto--if you've read any of my 15K service thread, you'll be aware that I changed over to Camaro OE front pads--same caliper/pad spec (D1404)--which offered less initial bite, but cut down on noise, rotor wear, and pad dusting. The Camaro pads are still on the car, along with the original front rotors at over 48K miles. Brembo setup will be going on fairly soon....

PPV OE pad
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf ... 79&jpid=39" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
alternate ACD pad -performance "fleet/police"
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf ... 79&jpid=37" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Camaro V6 OE pad - more expensive but much less dust!
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf ... 42&jpid=28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
alternate ACD pad - same as for PPV above
xcidmigs wrote:
CrashTestDummy wrote:My plan was if I went with a brake 'upgrade', I'd go for the V1 CTS brakes, since they fit the steel wheels.
That they do but I really would like to see someone do a test using brand new OEM 2011 PPV pads/rotors and whatever combo of caddy V1 parts. I REALLY wonder if there would be any difference. .
The stock brakes are quite good, as you've noted. It would not be possible to leave the stock front rotors on the PPV and use Brembo calipers/pads with them, just for clarification--you're referring to the V6 CTS J55 calipers, which are twin-piston floating design, but they are from the V2 CTS, from 2008 or later. Here's an example: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf ... 811&jpid=5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

xcidmigs
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Location: SE PA

Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by xcidmigs » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:33 pm

That was not what i was refering to really what i meant was for someone to do a test back to back using the complete stock PPV system and all new OEM parts vs. the complete caddy brembo upgrade stuff F/R, which i mislabeled the "V1" Everyone who has done the swap I'm reading about is quick to tell you how much better the stopping is but all are also coming from clearly worn out OEM parts first as well as upgrading to things like SS brake lines. Which leads me to wonder if its really a performance issue or just for looks thats the motivation. Very few times in actual street driving do we use any cars full braking capacity to the point that the pedal is mashed to the floor and the ABS system is fully active cycling all 4 calipers etc. So the rest is all about driver "feel" which is fine but not a scientific method.

As a side note Bill I'm still interested in being the guinea pig on the caddy front V1 caliper only swap which you said you had parts laying around for....

Navy Lifer
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Location: Canton GA

Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by Navy Lifer » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:25 pm

Agreed all around....I've reminded Impala SS Forum folks of this many times, when they've installed new drilled/slotted rotors, pads, etc, and come back declaring just how GREAT the brakes are compared to prior to doing the parts swap. As you say, comparing worn out to fresh is hardly a valid comparison.

Much is cosmetic in the Brembo approach, especially considering the robust nature of the PPV system. It's very much like the 94-96 9C1 & Impala SS.

It's just a starting point....would I love to mount a full Z/28 system on this car? YES....that said, I'm still going to replace the OE rotors & calipers with the bigger stuff.

I'll get that inventory of CTS J55 front twin-floater parts info to you soon.

v8suprcapric
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by v8suprcapric » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:14 pm

I'm about to have this done, 1" wider. Just bought a spare set of the PPV wheels and am going to send them to Weldcraft. They're a couple weeks out they say so I'll let you know when I've got them back, I'll take some pics.
Image
1987 Landau (383 stroker, vortec heads, 700r4, posi rear, Bilstein shocks, Eibach springs, Bassett 15x8, BFGoodrich 275/60, 9C1 speedo)
2011 9C3 (K&N CAI, Weldcraft widened 18x9 factory steelies, Bridgestone 285/35)

v8suprcapric
Posts: 88
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Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by v8suprcapric » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:39 pm

Took some measurements today and looks like I'll definitely need a little bit of wheel spacer. Inside of front left wheel turned full lock left is about 7/8" away from the strut. Front right wheel turned full lock right is about 3/4" away from strut. Has anyone widened their wheels an inch or more? Are you finding you needed wheel spacers?
Image
1987 Landau (383 stroker, vortec heads, 700r4, posi rear, Bilstein shocks, Eibach springs, Bassett 15x8, BFGoodrich 275/60, 9C1 speedo)
2011 9C3 (K&N CAI, Weldcraft widened 18x9 factory steelies, Bridgestone 285/35)

CrashTestDummy
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Location: Pearland, Texas

Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by CrashTestDummy » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:47 pm

Yeah, front strut clearance is the controlling factor in widening wheels on these cars. At least that's what I've found. Seems you can go an inch, perhaps a bit more, on the rear, but to do that on the front, you'll have to use a spacer, or get material added to the outside, too.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?

xcidmigs
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Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by xcidmigs » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:58 pm

why do you care to widen the front wheels? I understand the rears?

CrashTestDummy
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Location: Pearland, Texas

Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by CrashTestDummy » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:11 pm

1. attempt to get a square configuration, making rotation easier, and,
2. moar tire is always better, no matter what end it's on. A bigger front tire gives you more front grip, giving you quicker turn-in. But that's the autocrosser in me speaking. :lol:

Although I really think that while you might be able to widen the wheels approximately the same, some width gain on the front will have to go on the outboard side. I guess you could do that with spacers, but you might have to use longer wheel studs to do that properly.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?

v8suprcapric
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:58 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by v8suprcapric » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:59 pm

CrashTestDummy wrote:Although I really think that while you might be able to widen the wheels approximately the same, some width gain on the front will have to go on the outboard side. I guess you could do that with spacers, but you might have to use longer wheel studs to do that properly.
That's the route I'm going to take. Once I've got the wheels back I'll get some spacers, and depending on how much spacer I need I'll either have to deal with getting new lugs or not. Glad I ordered an extra set of wheels to get widened cause with all this trial and error it would have been a long while with my car up on jackstands.
Image
1987 Landau (383 stroker, vortec heads, 700r4, posi rear, Bilstein shocks, Eibach springs, Bassett 15x8, BFGoodrich 275/60, 9C1 speedo)
2011 9C3 (K&N CAI, Weldcraft widened 18x9 factory steelies, Bridgestone 285/35)

CrashTestDummy
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Location: Pearland, Texas

Re: Widening stock steel wheels - anyone thought about it?

Post by CrashTestDummy » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:22 am

I bought a pair of OEM wheels with the idea of widening them a pair at a time. I'm going to work through the aftermarket aluminum option first, but the idea was to get a modded pair, then see how it works at each end.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?

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