Sway Bars

Suspension, brake, and hydraulic/electric steering discussion.
Navy Lifer
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Location: Canton GA

Re: Sway Bars

Post by Navy Lifer » Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:44 pm

nothing specific on "rates", per se.

As I mentioned in the other active thread I just replied to, the wire diameter and number of free coils indicate the SS springs will be "softer", but I do not know what impact this has on load-carrying capacity. Beyond my level of knowledge to calculate, but I know there are formulas to do that.

If I could get the springs on a rate-checker as often used by oval racers, it would be interesting to see what the numbers are....I'll work on that.

The SS measured suspension height IS lower than PPV--lighter car on softer springs. The SS is lighter, by maybe 200-250# compared to PPV, so with a known lower static suspension height vs stock PPV, and the greater weight of the PPV, the ride height (with equal wheels/tires) SHOULD mean the PPV will sit slightly lower than SS (or, in reality, the SS springs used on a PPV will be slightly more compressed).

Shocks for PPV should be fine--they are actually valved heavier than the 2014 SS shocks, as part of the package for the type of duty, as well as the heavier (stiffer) springs used on PPV. Bigger springs (wire diameter) means more energy to control, so the shocks are valved appropriately to do the job. Even with the heavier valving of the OE PPV shocks, I don't think it will be too harsh with the lighter SS springs. That is where I think the change of sway bars will complement the entire package--springs/shocks, wheel/tire choice.

Depending on your car's model year and VIN, there was a running change for rear shocks mid-2011, and 2012 brought new front shocks that are reported to be a significant improvement over 2011 front shocks--I got this information from a GM engineer I know that was able to reach someone in the PPV program for some suggestions. My car has the 2nd version rear shocks already, and I have a pair of the new front shocks that will be used when I do the SS spring swap.

I am also going to a 19" wheel with 255/40 tires all around, so I'm cognizant of what impact tire sidewall can have on NVH & ride quality vs the stock tire with 50 aspect ratio...another reason to go with an OE spring combination rather than aftermarket lowering springs.

CrashTestDummy
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Location: Pearland, Texas

Re: Sway Bars

Post by CrashTestDummy » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:36 pm

Any clue where that weight reduction is coming from? Lower weight is a win all the way around.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?

xcidmigs
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:12 am
Location: SE PA

Re: Sway Bars

Post by xcidmigs » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:56 pm

2014 SS sedan:
Exterior Dimensions
Wheelbase (in / mm): 114.8 / 3916
Overall length (in / mm): 195.5 / 4966
Overall width (in / mm): 74.7 / 1897
Overall height (in / mm): 57.9 / 1470
Track (in / mm): front: 62.6 / 1590
rear: 62.4 / 1585
Curb weight (lb / kg): 3975 / 1803

2015 caprice ppv:
EXTERIOR (in./mm)
Wheelbase 118.5/3010.0
Overall length 204.2/5187.0
Overall width (excluding mirrors) 74.8/1898.7
Overall height* 58.7/1490.0
Front track width 62.8/1596.0
Rear track width 63.2/1606.0
Curb Weight V6/V8 4043/1834 4162/1888

All that info is from GM webpages looks like its the extra wheelbase and overall length that get you... SS sedan also has some aluminum body panels not sure about PPV

Navy Lifer
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Location: Canton GA

Re: Sway Bars

Post by Navy Lifer » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:36 am

Gene, what you really need to do is find the weight of VE/G8 GXP (w/heavy front brakes) and compare it to SS sedan--just remember that SS is a fully loaded car compared to PPV. The total weight reduction for the SWB (VE/G8 vs VF/SS) cars is in the 150# range. There are no aluminum body panels on PPV. Some suspension parts for both SS and 2014> (WN) Caprice PPV are now aluminum, so there was SOME weight reduction compared to 2011-2013 (WM) Caprice. VF (SS) and WN (PPV) also now use some high-strength steel in certain areas that is also lighter. so there are some trade-offs on weight even between WM & WN (LWB) models, such as fatter sway bars on the 2014 & newer PPV. Dual battery option in WM PPV added more weight--not sure if it's still offered for WN, but probably so...that adds to the "curb weight"--my 2011 PPV does have it, and I suspect most PPV's do, but it was not standard.

The longer wheelbase of PPV means a little more sheetmetal, a little more glass, and a longer driveshaft, mostly, so I can't really say what that might add to total weight, but I would think it's going to be in the 50# or less range, honestly. Slightly heavier springs, and very heavy steel wheels (32# each) vs 24#/25# for SS also come into play--and a heavy standard full size spare on PPV vs optional on SS (air pump standard).

CrashTestDummy
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Location: Pearland, Texas

Re: Sway Bars

Post by CrashTestDummy » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:34 pm

I had no idea the PPV was longer. That must by why they seem to look a bit nicer (to me) than the SS, although I couldn't tell you why. I guess I was hoping for some lighter body panels/suspension bits, as I would have figured an-up-fitted PPV, with fewer options, would actually weigh less than an SS. Longer wheelbase will definitely make a difference, as would the wheels. Not sure what I'm going to do with the wheels, yet. I don't know if the PPV we're getting has dual batteries or not, our Tahoe didn't. If we're sporting dual batteries, a couple of Brailes can fix part of that issue. I'll definitely be swapping them out if they're still liquid acid batteries.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?

leadfart
Posts: 465
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:00 am
Location: Treasure Island, Lake McQueeney, TX

Re: Sway Bars

Post by leadfart » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:24 pm

Gene,

The PPV is a much bigger car than the G8 or SS. One of the biggest volume wise rear drive vehicles out there. They just don't look that big, because of the narrower body. 8-)
Bob Dannelley
2011 Alto Gray 9C3 Caprice PPV-Maggie-11.64@119.68-Sold!
1995 DCM Impala SS-409-Stroker!-11.83@115
2014 Silver Ice LTZ Silverado Crewcab 4X4
2007 Black Z51 M6-Corvette Coupe

CrashTestDummy
Posts: 1943
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Location: Pearland, Texas

Re: Sway Bars

Post by CrashTestDummy » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:35 pm

IIRC it's a little shorter than a 94-96 B-body, too. That's nice, as the Tahoe PPV is a little wider than the 9C1 it replaced. It's garage-mate will provide some dancing room in the garage. ;)
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?

Pursuit
Administration Staff
Posts: 701
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
Location: Omaha, NE area

Re: Sway Bars

Post by Pursuit » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:04 pm

After getting my butt kicked with the front sway bar, I did some quick research and found that I wasn't the only one to have issues. (G8 or Camaro). Lifting the engine is mentioned in some threads, looseing the power steering hose is also. Others have removed the tie rod ends and radius arms from the both steering knuckles. Almost all installed the bushings and brackets after the sway bar was in place. There are also threads where the swap wasn't a big deal. I also found the BMR install instructions for a G8.

https://www.bmrsuspension.com/siteart/i ... nstall.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.bmrsuspension.com/siteart/i ... nstall.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I even found some people that just cut the original bar in half. Adding the bigger GM 2014 bar and the SB013 BMR set on the 1st hole (which creates the longest lever arm and the first level of stiffness) was a very worthwhile addition to the car. Bill Harper (Navy Lifer)has a very good understanding of the effects of swaybars, springrates, ride heights etc. He is willing to spend the time to do the research and test fit many different combinations. My thanks to him! The links to his information are a great resource and helped me to settle on what I did.

Regards,

Maurice
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
2012 Impala 9C1
1995 9C1 Caprice
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof

Navy Lifer
Administration Staff
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Location: Canton GA

Re: Sway Bars

Post by Navy Lifer » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:43 pm

front bar install video

SuperPro video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHr093k2aVE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

xcidmigs
Posts: 737
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:12 am
Location: SE PA

Re: Sway Bars

Post by xcidmigs » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:23 am

part #s for the 2015 SS springs yet?

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