Brake Speculation

Suspension, brake, and hydraulic/electric steering discussion.
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GTObert
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Brake Speculation

Post by GTObert » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:24 pm

I have read that the PPV uses the same front caliper as the V6 Camaro. If this is the case, it stands to reason that the SS Brembo calipers would also be a direct bolt on. Does anyone see why this wouldn't work? Also, does anyone know about the rears; are they the same as a Camaro?
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Navy Lifer
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:34 pm

The SS calipers may not bolt on--the G8 GXP calipers will work, from what I understand. It has something to do with differences in strut design or fastener size.

1st gen Cad CTS-V Brembo calipers will work on 2011-2013 PPV. The SS calipers will bolt on to 2014 PPV.

Rotors are going to be 355mm--for a PPV, the likelihood is that the OE steel wheels PROBABLY will not clear, but early CTS-V wheels were 18"--so proper high-offset 18's should work.

Camaro rear brakes - for V6 - are similar to G8/SS/PPV (324mm, single piston), but if you are asking about Camaro Brembo brakes, I do not know if fronts will work on PPV, and rears (also Brembo) require some added work. Rotors are 365mm, so at least 19" or possibly 20" wheels are required.

Research required....

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GTObert
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by GTObert » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:35 pm

Well I just did some digging and it seems that I was incorrect in thinking that the front calipers were the same between PPV and Camaro V6. They are not the same part #. This does not mean none of this stuff will work but there will probably have to be some custom parts made. It's just hard to pass up a full set of Brembo calipers that say Chevrolet on them for around $800 on eBay. What a steal!
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:51 pm

The front calipers could easily be different PN's, since Camaro V6 is built in NA and PPV is built in Oz (see below - info suggests they are the same) -the more important point is that the same FMSI-spec brake pad configuration (front) is used on both vehicles, so the caliper, even if different PN, is the same as far as fit/form/function.

Aftermarket says they're interchangeable--for example:
Left:
http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product ... 274&p=rock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Right:
http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product ... 275&p=rock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rock Auto listings:
Camaro OE 13578801 & 13578803
PPV OE same as Camaro

The other difference is that front rotor diameter is much larger on PPV, thus it uses a specific caliper abutment bracket--these brackets do not swap between PPV & Camaro without also swapping rotors (in other words, a cheap upgrade for Camaro V6 would be to change to the PPV's 345mm front rotors & abutments).

There IS a difference between Camaro rear brakes and the PPV/G8/SS--the Camaro has a larger rear park brake "drum" diameter, so it isn't a simple matter of putting Camaro rotors and calipers on the rear of the sedans--V6 Camaro rotor is 315mm diameter, where G8/SS/PPV is 324mm.

Camaro SS rear rotors (with Brembo calipers) are 365mm--in all cases there is a larger diameter drum brake/shoe for the park brake, on ALL V6 & V8 2010 & newer Camaros, and it cannot be used with the PPV park brake system unless a special brake shoe with thicker lining (something that does not exist and is custom-made) is required to make the park brake functional. Not to mention that this package (if stock Camaro SS brake pads are used), will require a wheel larger than 18"--Camaro goes straight to 20" wheels, but I cannot say if 19's will work.

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eagle-co94
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by eagle-co94 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:06 am

Bill, as always, thanks for posting this great info! When it comes time to part-out my wife's '05 V I know where the calipers are going!
-James . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . "Life without knowledge is death in disguise."

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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:48 pm

Continuing this line of "speculation", the 2015 SS is getting a rear Brembo package:

http://www.ssforums.com/forum/376730-post104.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This provides a new specific rotor that will NOT require:
1. a bracket to re-position the caliper
2. a special "fat" park brake shoe
3. trimming of the outer edge (radially) of the pads

It's very likely to fit inside 18" wheels, considering (again) that 1st gen CTS-V wheels were 18", and the rear rotors on that application were 365mm, where these new SS rotors are reported to be 360mm.

It comes down to where the caliper's "bumps & bulges" are as far as clearing OE steel wheels, but I'm fairly comfortable with the notion they will clear 18" alloy wheels.

CTS-V rear calipers are QUITE cheap relative to the SS calipers in the above link--all that is required is to "flip" the transfer pipe and bleed valves end to end on the calipers, because the CTS-V mounts the calipers in "lead" (ahead of the axle center) while PPV & SS/G8 mount them in "trail" (behind axle center). The calipers need to stay on the same side of vehicle as specified for CTS because of the differential (staggered) piston bore sizing Brembo uses to ensure even pad wear.

CTS-V rear caliper info: (GM 89047742 & 89047743)
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2308- ... -v+caliper" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2309- ... -v+caliper" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Front Brembo conversion is "easy" - CTS-V (2004-2007) 4-piston caliper (and appropriate pads) plus rotor from 2009 G8 GXP, 2009 & newer CTS-V, 2010> Camaro SS or 2014/2015 SS sedan (355mm). 6-piston ZR1 or CTS-V caliper (same part, different finish) is possible, with 370mm rotor - may require 19 or 20 wheels.

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GTObert
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by GTObert » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:44 pm

Is there any other rear caliper that would fit on these new SS rotors? If I go with a huge caliper on the front that very obviously says "Corvette", I would rather not have a rear that says "V". Something Chevy would be nice, or maybe I could just paint over the V.
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by ImpalaPPV » Sun Nov 02, 2014 3:43 am

I was playing around on GM's website and I built a v6 Camaro for fun. The newer Camaros have options to upgrade suspension, brake, and exhaust components to SS or ZL1 specs. I selected Camaro SS brakes on my 18" wheeled v6 Camaro (that I was pretend building) and I was able to add them with 18" wheels (apparently Zl1 brakes fit too I tired). No wheel size change was required. I figured I'd pass this information along. Camaro SS and Zl1 brakes should fit behind 18" wheels (granted Camaros come with alloys). Perhaps there is hope to fit Camaro SS/Zl1 brakes behind 18" steelies as I don't see GM making wheel profiles all that different simply for logistics. Food For thought.

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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:31 am

Realize that "accessories" are not installed on the production line--the Camaro "build your own" system is very misleading.

The Camaro SS or ZL1 big brakes may or may not clear the 18" wheel's "barrel", but it often becomes a matter of the smaller wheels not having adequate room between the back of the wheel spokes and the outboard face of the caliper.

http://www.chevrolet.com/camaro-sports- ... ories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brake System
These racing-style brake systems enhance braking performance under track operating conditions. Brake conversion kits offer greater resistance to warping, reduced operating temperatures in track conditions, and increased fade resistance.

Rear Brembo Performance ZL1 Brakes - V8-SS Package (FE7 Suspension required) 23104466 $2,500.00
Front Brembo Performance ZL1 Brakes 22959672 $4,150.00
SS Brake Upgrade Kit (Complete Front & Rear Kit) 23120542 $5,600.00
V6 to ZL1 Brake Conversion Kit (Complete Front & Rear Kit) 22989384 $7,200.00

http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/cu ... rades.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

** MSRP excluding installation, taxes and wheel components (if applicable). Dealer prices may vary. Some accessories may require purchase of additional equipment and/or services. See your dealer for details.

If you look at the Chevy Performance Catalog, the brake upgrades all specify "20 inch wheels required for caliper clearance". (link below - pages 19 to 21)

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/Ch ... atalog.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No free lunch here!

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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:43 am

GTObert wrote:Is there any other rear caliper that would fit on these new SS rotors? If I go with a huge caliper on the front that very obviously says "Corvette", I would rather not have a rear that says "V". Something Chevy would be nice, or maybe I could just paint over the V.
The standard Camaro SS Brembo rear caliper just says Chevrolet & Brembo

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-172-2503- ... e+calipers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2158958" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is the same caliper as used on Camaro ZL1, with a different paint job.,

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