IF YOU HAVE LIFTER NOISE DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY!

[ejf2461]

I have had 10 Caprice PPV's and only 1 a Brand New 2017 didn't end up having DOD/AFM lifter issues. DOD/AFM sucks and robs your engine of about 50-60hp. You can waste time and rebuild your engine and install a dod delete kit but with todays prices for machine work and finding a machine shop that has good skills, you usually end up with more money in it then buying a new crate motor with a dod delete kit already installed. If you have the lifter issues GM says 15hrs labor to rebuild both heads (15hrs @ $170hr=$2550) If your lifters ruined the cam (10hrs x $170hr=$1700) so we are at $4250 just for labor with parts $6k out the door. Its not worth it if you have a high mileage PPV. Ive purchased a Jasper 6.0 L77 with DOD Delete for $6871 the Jasper Reman Transmission was $4185 both came with a 3yrs/100k warranty for additional $250 each. I do not recommend either. When I had both installed and even with 53hp more. (Bone Stock 2017 PPV put down 280hp on the dyno) The Jasper has 333hp and it didnt feel like much more than stock. The last Caprice I did I started with a GM Performance 6.2 LS3 Crate Engine $6650 and comes with a 3yrs/Unlimited Mileage Warranty for free, if your wondering the GM Performance 6l80e was also cheaper $3968 and also had a 3yr unlimited mileage warranty included. The LS3 if you did nothing would have 30+ more hp over the L77 with DOD Delete or 75+ more hp over stock. I added a BTR Stage 1 Cam and some other things, complete exhaust front to back. If you have a higher mileage PPV your cats are on borrowed time and also think of replacing the entire driveshaft front to back so you get all 3 bushings new about $600 ish bucks complete. I have rode in dozens of PPV's that guys installed huge cams, 3-4k rpm stall convertors and not 1 had what I would call drivablity. If you actually wanna drive your sled to another state with your family/friends and still have your dental work and hearing when you get there then be realistic when doing performance upgrades. All of my builds the car were still being used as police cars so relaiablity and driveabilty were priorities. I can tell you for the money the LS3 even if you do nothing else is the way to go for power, relability and price. I was so impressed that when our 2007-2014 Police Tahoes started having lifter issues I replaced the engines with LS3's the 5.3 bone stock put down 253hp on the dyno the 6.2 with hp tune and stock air filter, exhaust manifolds, stock muffler put down 344hp. (91hp more and $300 cheaper than the GM 5.3 crate engine which it was on its 3rd gm 5.3 engine. Not to scare anyone away but cops idle their cars 10x what the average person does. We used our local Chevrolet Dealer to do all our work since they give us 30% discount on parts/labor. We will never see gasoline powered vehicles that we car add power to like these Caprices ever again so I plan to keep these ones on the road as long as possible.

[bstoner]

It is way, way cheaper to do a top end rebuild then a LS3 crate motor. A LS3 stock crate motor from Summit Racing is $6,195. This gets you 430 hp. I spent $1,597 for my top end rebuild kit which included a better cam, better lifters, better coil springs, better pushrods, and better timing chain than the stock LS3. Cam dynos at 531 hp which is over a hundred more then the stock LS3 crate motor. I then spent $650 to have my heads ported, valve job, and milled. I also spent $433 for new Manley performance valves. I checked and assembled my heads myself in my basement. Took a couple of hours. I ported my intake manifold myself and also did the rod mod at the same time. So I have $2,680 in a performance top end rebuild that has the capability of 100 hp over the crate motor. My short block had 190k and the cam bearings looked fine and cylinder walls looked fine. I did not drop the crank to check main/rod bearings but I had no reason to suspect they were worn out. Oil pressure is fine. With my stage 2 cam and torque converter it drives pretty close to stock. Wife and kids don't know it has a cam. I have headers and 3" exhaust so the giveaway that it is not stock is the exhaust note. But otherwise tuning the idle you can hide the cam chop pretty well and converter technology has come a long way to make it drive like stock. New converters feel tight not like the ones of old.

I guess this is my long winded point of saying I feel a top end swap is certainly not a waste of time or money. And in fact I would recommend it unless you dropped a rod or trashed the short block. Now I also did intake/exhaust to compliment my motor and had it tuned remotely. (Which any upgrade would need as well.) But my top end rebuild resulted in a massive hp/tq increase. Other 6.0L with the similar setup as mine dyno 430-440 hp at the wheels verse 280 hp stock. So in theory I gained around 150 hp for $7,629 ($2,680 top end rebuild, $500 tune, $2,648 exhaust, $422 intake, $1,379 converter). My setup should be pretty similar to yours HP wise with your LS3 and Stage 1 cam. I also overspent on exhaust to go coated headers, 3" all the way and extra mufflers and resonators to keep it quiet for a future LSA/2650. I also recommend a converter no matter what. It puts you right in the powerband and makes a big difference.

Don't get me wrong. An LS3 crate motor is nice. You get slightly larger pistons and better exhaust valves than our L77 along with the DOD delete. For a drop in stock replacement its an alternative option. But if you want more HP/TQ you are leaving so much on the table. Even going with a LS3 short block and getting better heads, cam, and port the intake manifold will net you fantastic gains. Then follow-up with a converter and better gears is the tried and true recipe for a fun street car.

[JoeR]

You could also replace the camshaft with a stock one, add some new lifters and be all set. You'd still have a heck of an engine!
These engines aren't tough on valves or valve guides. They easily go 200,000 miles without needing any attention. Some go way more than that. I won't dispute the value of a good valve job, but if you're looking to buy one of these cars with a DOD failure you don't have to go crazy to fix it.
They do respond really well to performance enhancers, so like you say, you can add 100HP to them for not a whole lot of money.

Joe

[ejf2461]

If you can wrench on things yourself then you can always save your self lots of $$. This was more a story on several things I have done wrong over the years as a Police Chief and throwing money into cars to keep them going. My guys idle their cruisers alot and its hard on DOD componets. We used to have 3 master mechanics who would rebuild our engines for a fraction of the cost. Chevrolet rebuilt 3 of our L77's and all 3 failed again. Another 1 we had a dod delete kit installed and like you stated rebuilt the top end. 9 months later we starting getting misfires in cylinder #2 & #8. For most who don't wrench themselves and when you over 100k on your engine if you spend half of the cost of the new crate motor and don't have a warranty how much are you really saving. In my postion I have to evaluate those decisions because I have to answer to other political beancounters. Like when they see I bought a new LS3 crate engine and see that I paid to have another cam, trunion, valves, springs & rockers installed in it! I reply they had to install a special police cam and when you install the police cam it makes you switch to full length headers and high flo cats! They shake their heads confused and reply " Yeah of course, you gotta have that"

[bstoner]

I wish you were my police chief! LOL. When I worked the road we always got Crown Vics from the State Bid. Now everyone runs Explorers and a few run Chargers. Now I understand. This isn't personal vehicles you wrenching on them. These are municipality units. Time is money. You need the work done ASAP to get them back on the road. This isn't you in your garage. Do you send then to auction when done? Someone would get a heck of deal not knowing the work done. We maintained our units to working condition and that's it! We went through radiator fans from idling so much. I bet your officers love you for getting hot rods to patrol with! LOL.