WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington, NC.

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cal30_sniper
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:17 pm

WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington, NC.

Post by cal30_sniper »

Howdy all,
Figured I’d post up on here and at least give anyone else that’s looked at this car, or might consider looking at it in the future, a thorough heads up so they don’t end up getting hoodwinked like almost happened to me.

I’m new to the forum, and haven’t built up any cred here yet, but I’ve been a longtime member of several other forums under the same name. Thirdgen.org, ls1tech.com, transamcountry.com, the Performance Years forum, and 67-72chevytrucks.com are a few of the ones that I’ve frequented over the last few years and built up an excellent buyer/seller feedback rating. I’m also on ebay with the same handle, just no underscore. I’m a fairly trusting person, and have had very good luck buying and selling vehicles on craigslist in the past, but I’ve had such a negative experience with this guy that I wanted to reach out and warn others.

The car in question is a black 2012 9C1 Caprice with just under 19k miles, that the seller listed for $16,500 in the Wilmington, NC craigslist. He claimed in the add that the car had a clean title and Carfax, and when I called him, he said he’d put a few thousand trouble free miles on the car but was going to have to sell due to a 3rd kid on the way. He also went on and on about how perfect and clean the car was, etc, etc. Sounded like just what I’d been looking for, so I hopped in the Suburban on a Monday afternoon and did the 3hr drive to look at the car. The car looked great, inside and out, and after giving it a pretty good visual inspection, all I noticed was a small crease/cracked paint at the very front tip of the passenger fender (where it stuck out over the headlight), and a crack in the rocker panel just behind the driver front tire. When I inspected that area closer, I saw that the plastic inner fender was also cracked and had pulled through the little plastic pop-rivets that hold it to the body at the bottom rear corner. Furthermore, and slightly more concerning to me, I noticed that the tire had also been rubbing the frame rail/inner fender on the rear edge of the drivers front tire. There was a spot several inches square that had been worn to bare metal. I had been around 04-06 GTOs, and new they had tire rub issues, so I figured that this could be normal, or the result of a bad alignment. His explanation for the busted up rocker edge and inner fender was that his wife had backed over one of his kid’s bicycles in the garage and it got hung up behind the tire. He claimed he’d never noticed the crease by the passenger head light (looking back, hard to believe that I found the spot in 5 minutes, but he’d never noticed it in four months of ownership, especially since the car was freshly waxed). I also noticed upon starting the car that the TPMS system was nonfunctional. He claimed this was because a lot of the 9C1 cars didn’t come with TPMS.

I was pretty taken with the car after driving it, and left him a $200 cash deposit, along with a signed agreement to come pick up the car and pay in full by the 11th of this month. In return, he agreed to take the car off of the market until then. All is well, or so I thought.

I got home, and did a bit of digging, and stuff started not lining up. I looked up the tire rub issue first. I couldn’t find anyone else having that problem. His claims about the TPMS system didn’t seem to check out either. I figured what the heck, I’m just going to run a Carfax so I can quit worrying about this and get back to thinking about important stuff. Well, big surprise, the Carfax didn’t come back clean after all. The last dealer service record was March 2014 with 13,500 something miles on the car. Then, the car was listed as involved in a collision with an airbag deployment in April 2014, while still in service of the Police Department that had first purchased the car. All record of the car stops for a full year after that, until it shows up at a salvage auction in 2015. The record stops again after the auction, until January of this year, when the car is titled by its 2nd owner in South Carolina. Then, in July, the car is shown as having been titled by the current owner, with 14k miles on the odometer. Now I’m really concerned, so I run an autocheck, and come back with the same info. The autocheck also categorizes the accident as severe, but didn’t list the actual extent of damage to the car, only that an airbag had deployed. Thoroughly concerned, I really start to dig.

Within the next few days, I managed to locate the accident report, including an investigation diagram, of the wreck. The short story is, the officer who was driving had a medical emergency and stopped in the middle of the street. Said emergency then caused him to step on the accelerator, leaving the road, jumping a curb, impacting the side of a brick building with the driver’s side of the car, bouncing off the building, and coming to rest with the nose of the car against the neighbor’s mailbox. Still, no record of the extent of the damage to the car. I ran the name in the report against the current department contact list, and came up with the name and email address of a Detective that matched. I emailed the Detective, and although he was understandably reluctant in his response, he did confirm that the vehicle had suffered “mid to extensive front end damage” (whatever that means). I contacted the local Chevy dealer, body shops, and the wrecker that had towed the car, and none of them had any record of how bad the damage was.

The seller left last Thursday for a trip, and stated he would be out of contact for a week, just as I was finding all of this out. After a few days of soul searching, I decided that I would talk to the seller when he got back into town, discuss what I had found, and present him with a list of demands that would be required to continue through with the sale. My initial intent was to request a full body and frame inspection at a reputable shop, paid for by the seller, with a clean bill of health. I also wanted the contact information of the person he bought it from 4 months ago, so that I could continue to try and track down how extensive the repairs that were done to the vehicle were (bear in mind, there is absolutely no record of any shop doing the repairs on this vehicle in either of the VIN searches). Given that those checked out, and I was satisfied that the car had been properly repaired, I was still ready to pay his asking price. Then he called me today, and it all went out the window.

We talked on the phone for 59 minutes and 6 seconds today. After the initial pleasantries, I told him what I had found on the car. Right off the bat, he started arguing with me. He claimed that this was news to him, he had never run a Carfax, and was just going off of what the previous owner said. He said numerous times that I had inspected the car in person, and if it wasn’t properly repaired, I would have been able to notice it during the test drive (which was all of five miles). He continued to go back to how clean the car looked, that the repairs must have been done properly (sure, the car probably had a completely new front clip and paint put on 4k miles ago. I’d hope it would still look good). He kept parroting that we had a deal, and I needed to follow through, to which I responded that we had a deal based on a “false representation” of the car as having a clean Carfax, which I now viewed as void due to the recent discoveries. I don’t know how many times he argued about this, it had to have been a dozen or more. The seller absolutely refuses to acknowledge the fact that a clean title is not the same as a clean Carfax. In his mind, they are one and the same (then why would you mention BOTH in your for sale ad?) Amidst all this nonsense, he asked me what I thought would need to happen before I could purchase the car. I told him what I had said above, that I wanted a full inspection done by a body/frame shop, with focus on the areas supposedly repaired, paid for by the seller. Given the continued attitude and unwillingness to acknowledge the issue at hand, I also added that I wouldn’t pay a dollar more than $14,500 for the car. That raised all sorts of hooting and hollering. Apparently the seller also believes that a car with a perfectly clean history is worth the same amount as a car that has been recorded as experiencing a major accident with undocumented damage and repairs, as long as it looks and drives nice. He stated this numerous times, continuing to harp on the fact that if it looks good, the repairs had to have been done correctly. I refused to budge. After a bit of that, he realized I wasn’t going to cave in, and then he started to pivot. He started talking about having to ask his wife if the lower price was okay, and tried to talk me into coming down and meeting him at a shop so I could pay for the inspection (a 3hr drive each way, which I had already done to look at the car under false pretenses). I told him no, I wasn’t going to drive down there again, or offer to pay any money on the car, until my terms had been met. Then he wanted a guarantee that I would buy the car if the inspection worked out (this is after he informed me that prior to doing anything else, he was going to call the other two guys that were supposedly on their way to look at the car when I left the deposit, and see if either of them wanted to buy the car still). I responded that at this point, being completely honest, I wasn’t going to wait on hand and foot for him to dot his I’s and cross his T’s. I told him that if he met my terms, and I hadn’t found another car by that point, I would purchase the vehicle, but that our previous contract was null and void based on his intentional or unintentional misrepresentation of the vehicle. He balked again, calling me shady, trying to blame me for the whole deal, saying I was being unreasonable, emotional, and several other things. Eventually, realizing we were getting nowhere I told him too bad, I’m no longer interested in the car, good luck selling it to someone else. I also told him that if I saw it for sale again listed as having a clean Carfax, that I would call the local authorities on him for attempted fraud. He then threatened me with a lawyer, to which I said go ahead, I have all of this documented. That’s where we left off.

Sorry this is so long. I wanted to both get this off my chest, and to forewarn the others that will surely be drawn to the low miles, good price, and clean looks of this vehicle. If anyone does need the documentation, PM me, and I will gladly send you pdf copies of the VIN reports and accident report. At this point, I’m out several hundred dollars in my deposit (which he never offered to return), and the multiple reports that I purchased, as well as many hours of my own time digging all that stuff up. I’d like nothing more than to see someone else avoid going through the same thing.

Too Long, Didn’t Read Version:
-This car was advertised as having a clean title and Carfax
-The seller said nothing to contradict his claims of a clean Carfax when I inspected and test drove the car. He volunteered no information about the troubled history of the car.
-Every VIN report I ran comes back with a major accident in 2014. I also have the police report and have received confirmation from the officer who was driving when it happened.
-Seller denied any knowledge of this accident
-Seller refuses to acknowledge that this is not a clean Carfax, claiming that a clean Carfax is the same as a clean title.
-Seller refuses to entertain any other idea than that the repairs were properly done (no record exists of this anywhere), and the vehicle is in perfect shape, just because it looks nice and has given him a few thousand trouble free miles over the last 4 months (so he claims).
-At the end of the day, the seller has pinned the entire failed deal on me, refused to refund my deposit, and flippantly threatened legal action against me for not following through on our deal.

Caveat Emptor.
-2011 Caprice 9C3: Mirage Glow Metallic, 63k miles
-2011 Caprice 9C1 (Gone)
-1973 Firebird Formula, restoration in progress
-1986 K30 Suburban 8.1L/NV4500, the toy hauler and wheeler
smwalker
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Re: WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington,

Post by smwalker »

Post the VIN in your message so the search engines will see it. Might save someone in the future.
Steve Walker
Azusa, CA
'11 PPV 9C3 Huron White
cal30_sniper
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:17 pm

Re: WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington,

Post by cal30_sniper »

Good call:
6G1MK5U23CL664165

Supposedly he lives in Southport, NC. We met at a grocery store a little ways north of there towards Wilmington.
-2011 Caprice 9C3: Mirage Glow Metallic, 63k miles
-2011 Caprice 9C1 (Gone)
-1973 Firebird Formula, restoration in progress
-1986 K30 Suburban 8.1L/NV4500, the toy hauler and wheeler
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No Moa
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:30 pm
Location: Maine

Re: WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington,

Post by No Moa »

Trans am country, ls1 tech, haven't been over there in a while.

Sorry your experience sucked. I found 2 cars at a dealer, they were both supposedly clear. I carfaxed both, and one of them had drivers bag deployment and the other had been in 2 accidents in 1 month. Minor stuff. People suck. I made a ridiculous offer on them, haven't got a reply yet.
2014 Caprice PPV silver
2017 Ram 3500
2002 CETA trans am
1996 Impala ss (soon to be t56)
1995 9c1
1977 Trans am SE 4spd.
1978 trans am 400 4 spd.
cal30_sniper
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:17 pm

Re: WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington,

Post by cal30_sniper »

I was honestly hoping the guy would just come clean, or be helpful, and we could try and sort this out. Oh well.

I got back to the laptop today after a day at the duty desk. I'll go ahead and upload the relevant files so anyone here can see them if they need them. I'm even more peeved now that I looked at them again. The guy claimed he put 4,000 miles on the car since he bought it, but it was titled in July with 16,550 miles. So he's put a grand total of just over 2,000 miles on the car before selling it. Coincidentally, so did the previous owner. I would bet a pretty large sum of money that something is wrong with this car and people keep trying to pass it off onto someone else. When I looked at the car, he went on and on about how regularly he changed the oil and how he always used Mobil 1. How many times exactly should you change your oil in TWO THOUSAND MILES I wonder?

Here's the original Craigslist ad (this number is one of 3 cell phone #s he used with me. After our first contact on this number, he called on a different phone and claimed this one had been broken. Yesterday he called on a 3rd number and claimed his 2nd phone had been stolen). Notice the last sentence in the ad:
Image

Here's the header page that came up when I ran the carfax:
Image

Here's the detailed carfax information:
Image
Image

The detailed autocheck information:
Image

And a redacted copy of the police report illustration/description (I removed the names, I have the full report if anyone should need it):
Image
-2011 Caprice 9C3: Mirage Glow Metallic, 63k miles
-2011 Caprice 9C1 (Gone)
-1973 Firebird Formula, restoration in progress
-1986 K30 Suburban 8.1L/NV4500, the toy hauler and wheeler
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elc32955
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Re: WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington,

Post by elc32955 »

And... don't forget, Craigslist ads can be removed by flagging. It takes two flags usually to get an ad knocked down, a deliberately disingenuous seller can also be removed by Craigslist. They've got a customer service number, drop a dime on 'em and see if they'll kill this schlubb's ads. You've got plenty of backup material.
System Manager and your tour guide for the day. 2015 Caprice w/LFX, former NC DPS staff car. Partial hybrid G8/SS/Camaro SS interior mods, SS MyLink radio upgrade, 2016 Camaro V6 rims, GMPP Malibu chrome exhaust tips, otherwise bone stock for now.
cal30_sniper
Posts: 103
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:17 pm

Re: WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington,

Post by cal30_sniper »

Just an FYI, he's got the car up for sale again. He removed the clean carfax claim, but he's not saying anything about its history either. I'm still wondering how he bought the car with 16,500 miles and has managed to keep up those 3000 mile Mobil 1 oil changes...

http://wilmington.craigslist.org/cto/5884810485.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-2011 Caprice 9C3: Mirage Glow Metallic, 63k miles
-2011 Caprice 9C1 (Gone)
-1973 Firebird Formula, restoration in progress
-1986 K30 Suburban 8.1L/NV4500, the toy hauler and wheeler
Siid
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:31 am

Re: WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington,

Post by Siid »

I thought I was an awesome internet detective but holy crap. You blew this one out of the water. That poor detective thought he finally put the wreck in his past but you emailed him. :lol: :lol:

Good work. Good findings. Solid 10/10 would read again.
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elc32955
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Re: WARNING: Shady 2012 Caprice 9C1 for sale in Wilmington,

Post by elc32955 »

I checked the sale listing out and noticed this guy's not running the VIN in the current ad. Smart people will call him out on the maintenance history among other things. Buyer beware! Also, I did Google search by the VIN number and yes, our thread here is appearing on Google when the VIN is searched.

Eric
System Manager and your tour guide for the day. 2015 Caprice w/LFX, former NC DPS staff car. Partial hybrid G8/SS/Camaro SS interior mods, SS MyLink radio upgrade, 2016 Camaro V6 rims, GMPP Malibu chrome exhaust tips, otherwise bone stock for now.
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