New Member looking to build my Caprice

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Welcome new members, please make your first post in this section. Say hello & tell us a little bit about you and your car. We're happy to see you here!
Notorious
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:00 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by Notorious »

bstoner wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:15 pm For starters it doesn't sound like your car was tuned properly. With the vehicle properly tuned you won't have throttle lag. I know with my car it is instant torque pin you to the seat or roast the tires... and I am not even high HP like some of the forced induction guys.

You don't need any add-on devices which are used to offset an air temp sensor or throttle position sensor to 'trick' the ECM (computer). All of that is handled in tuning the computer. A roar pedal just offsets the throttle position sensor so the ECM recieves an altered signal to make it think you want more throttle then what the accelerator pedal actually reads. You are just lower the resolution of the pedal and wasting money. It won't make you go any faster. It can't. That's not how it works. I also would not recommend porting your TB right away either. The TB is not a restriction and you won't gain any HP from it. You only port it to make the car more responsive, i.e. smaller movements in the TB blade result in more airflow.

As for running regular, premium, or E85 it all depends on what it was tuned for. If it was tuned for regular or is a stock tune you gain nothing but switching fuels. If it was tuned for premium you need to run 91/93 or you may get knock. E85 on a naturally aspirated motor you may get around 10 hp if you had the heads milled to bump up compression and run more timing. Not really worth it unless you are talking about possibly saving money in fuel cost vs. fuel economy differences. If you go FI then E85 can get you some big power gains!

Near as I can tell searching the forum you have an unknown mild cam, DOD delete, new mufflers, and cold air intake. Was the car tuned? I would call Twisted Steel and ask if then tuned it. Headers would make a difference and I would add that to your to do list. I would also change the rear end ratio if you want more acceleration. Depending on cam I would consider a torque converter as well.

If it was me I would do headers, rear end, and then get it tuned. Chris Henry, Shane Hinds, Pat G, Mike from New Era, DynoSteve, Ryan at GPI, Ted Jannetty, etc. all are top notch tuners. Then starting saving up for forced induction.
It doesn't have lag honestly but it could use more responsiveness and aggressiveness when lightly and heavily pressing the pedal, however it does heavily bump and jerk when i slow down and come to a stop, not sure if its cuz of the fuel im running (e85 currently) or just part of the cam idling etc.

And ill keep away from roar pedal and stuff like that, thanks for clearing it up for me. The previous owner had it tuned but not sure from twisted steel or somewhere else, he said he never ran e85, always 93. I started to run e85 only because everyone says you always gain power from e85 especially if vehicle is flex fuel. I will definitely add a ZL1 torque converter to my list too with the headers and honestly i think i should run 93 too because it probably is tuned for that since the owner never ran 85 but once i tune it again ill have it tuned for running e85 and sometimes ethanol free 92 octane.

What do you mean by rear end by the way? is that gears like 3.45 etc and im in north houston, Spring to be specific and a shop called PowerFab does tuning for SS and others, here is an exact quote of the gentleman at the shop "We can definitely do a fully exhaust set-up on your Caprice along with dyno tuning. We have our own IN-house tuner along with 2 available dyno's. We also have a full fabrication section for working custom solutions. Thankfully there are a few options when it comes to LTH set ups and exhausts for the caprice. "

If i can find these tuners you mentioned in Houston, all good, otherwise ill have to find my own or visit PowerFab near me. I've also heard of remote tuning but not sure how to proceed with that.

Also any thoughts on LS7 swap? is it easy and direct fit like the LS3 from the SS?
bstoner
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 05, 2021 2:12 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by bstoner »

The bumping and jerking while slowing down is either a tuning issue or torque converter. Nothing to do with E85. If you are running the tight stock torque converter with a cam you will get that along with push on the brakes at stop lights. An aftermarket torque converter, Yank, Circle D or stock LSA converter will get rid of that.

You should be fine running E85. The ECM will adjust for it. Or run 93. It doesn't really matter. We are flex fuel so you can flip back and forth with no issues. Not a factor.

For the rear end I mean getting a 3.27 or 3.45 differential from a Camaro, G8, or SS and putting it in. They are drop in. Read up more about it on this forum. Car will need tuned for it afterwards but it really wakes the car up.

I think most if not all the tuners can do remote tunes.

A LS7 block? I thought you were going FI with LSA? I am confused? Or staying NA and going with a LS7? LS7s are big money. GM discontinued them this year but I thought they were going for like $15k new. There are better ways to spend your money. Headwork, exhaust, rear end, better cam, and torque converter are a good start. Or go forced induction. Then with the proper cam, headwork, intercooling, porting, E85, etc. It all adds up. Block should be fine. Unless you are thinking about going stroker or making crazy boost.
2014 Caprice PPV, 6.0L, BTR Stage 2 Cam, 3.45, 3" exhaust, Rotofab intake, Chris Henry tuned, future LSA....
JoeR
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed May 25, 2022 12:34 am
Location: Central, NC

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by JoeR »

Notorious wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:44 pm
JoeR wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:42 am
Notorious wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 3:31 pm
4- I wish to install JBA long tube headers and "re-tune" the car after installation of the headers and keep running e85 instead of 93, which the previous owner ran and also i wanna see how much whp im pushing on my current setup
Unless you bump the compression beyond using pump gas, or are running lots of boost, running E85 will only cost you horsepower and mileage. In our engines, 87 octane will make more power than E85 will.

Joe
i've never heard from any caprice owner to run 87 neither have i heard that 85 causes power loss but 85 does burn gas way quicker. The previous owner always ran 93 and i assumed since the caprice is flex fuel and built to run e85 and i assumed the previous tune on this car could run 85 and 93, even 92, id do that. Thats why i need to visit a tuner and adjust fuel etc so i can be comfortable running on 85, 92, 93, 100 octane and achieve massive power.
Here's an article that does a good job of explaining it: https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e8 ... -test.html

Another: https://mechanicbase.com/cars/e85-vs-ga ... omparison/

If you're just a numbers guy,
Gasoline has around 120,000 BTUs/gallon
E85 has around 76,000 BTU's/gallon

Less heat content equals less power and less mileage.

That begs the question on how so many people make more power with it. Stoic on gasoline is 14.7:1 Stoic on E85 is between 9.5 and 10:1. So you can burn more of it, and make more heat. It also tolerates much higher cylinder pressures, and THAT'S where you get your gains. Gasoline would detonate badly at boost and compression ratios that are best for E85. If you engine is set up for it, and ours aren't, you can get big gains running E85. If you are at stock cylinder pressures, you lose power and mileage with E85.

Joe
Notorious
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:00 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by Notorious »

bstoner wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:02 am The bumping and jerking while slowing down is either a tuning issue or torque converter. Nothing to do with E85. If you are running the tight stock torque converter with a cam you will get that along with push on the brakes at stop lights. An aftermarket torque converter, Yank, Circle D or stock LSA converter will get rid of that.

You should be fine running E85. The ECM will adjust for it. Or run 93. It doesn't really matter. We are flex fuel so you can flip back and forth with no issues. Not a factor.

For the rear end I mean getting a 3.27 or 3.45 differential from a Camaro, G8, or SS and putting it in. They are drop in. Read up more about it on this forum. Car will need tuned for it afterwards but it really wakes the car up.

I think most if not all the tuners can do remote tunes.

A LS7 block? I thought you were going FI with LSA? I am confused? Or staying NA and going with a LS7? LS7s are big money. GM discontinued them this year but I thought they were going for like $15k new. There are better ways to spend your money. Headwork, exhaust, rear end, better cam, and torque converter are a good start. Or go forced induction. Then with the proper cam, headwork, intercooling, porting, E85, etc. It all adds up. Block should be fine. Unless you are thinking about going stroker or making crazy boost.
Im defintely getting a torque converter, i've heard the ZL1 converter is the best one for NA and FI and along with a differential, now whether to get 3.27 or 3.45 begs the question which i will do some research on, i've heard this will increase the car's top speed and affects shifting. I plan on roll and drag racing and put a S/C on so tryna see which gear would be best for that but for atleast a year or 6 months i plan on being NA before going FI (gotta save on funds)

You recommend i do a remote tune with a tuner familiar with caprices/ss? or try one locally who does on all modern american muscle cars?

My ultimate goal was to throw in a 7.0 LS7 and S/C that but like you mentioned the price of the LS7 is over 10K easily but im torn in whether i should work on my current 120K mileage L77 and S/C that for 1,000+whp or put a fresh 6.2 off an LSX B crate engine or LS3 and S/C that (both the ls x and 3 would be alot more expensive) BUT in all honesty if the L77 can last over 200,000+ miles and can handle 1,000+ horsepower to the wheels without any issues (i can upgrade the transmission in the process) then its fine, id rather save the money for more mods than to buy a new motor.

Thank you for all the help and info, i really appreciate it. I keep coming back to this thread for info everytime i get confused or lost.
Notorious
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:00 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by Notorious »

JoeR wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:22 am
Notorious wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:44 pm
JoeR wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:42 am

Unless you bump the compression beyond using pump gas, or are running lots of boost, running E85 will only cost you horsepower and mileage. In our engines, 87 octane will make more power than E85 will.

Joe
i've never heard from any caprice owner to run 87 neither have i heard that 85 causes power loss but 85 does burn gas way quicker. The previous owner always ran 93 and i assumed since the caprice is flex fuel and built to run e85 and i assumed the previous tune on this car could run 85 and 93, even 92, id do that. Thats why i need to visit a tuner and adjust fuel etc so i can be comfortable running on 85, 92, 93, 100 octane and achieve massive power.
Here's an article that does a good job of explaining it: https://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/e8 ... -test.html

Another: https://mechanicbase.com/cars/e85-vs-ga ... omparison/

If you're just a numbers guy,
Gasoline has around 120,000 BTUs/gallon
E85 has around 76,000 BTU's/gallon

Less heat content equals less power and less mileage.

That begs the question on how so many people make more power with it. Stoic on gasoline is 14.7:1 Stoic on E85 is between 9.5 and 10:1. So you can burn more of it, and make more heat. It also tolerates much higher cylinder pressures, and THAT'S where you get your gains. Gasoline would detonate badly at boost and compression ratios that are best for E85. If you engine is set up for it, and ours aren't, you can get big gains running E85. If you are at stock cylinder pressures, you lose power and mileage with E85.

Joe
Thanks for the information, good article write up and i honestly think maybe i should mix 93 and e85 hahaha, because i dont know what tune the previous owner ran apart from him saying he always ran 93 high octane. I thought i could switch back and forth from octane ratings for saving money and gaining power on both e85 and 93 but now im torn on what to do and what octane to run until i get a proper tune. I know my mileage is not good on e85 at the moment, im at half a tank and only did 60 miles of driving from full tank (but i did gun it a few times and drive a minimum of 60-80 mph when i do drive)
bstoner
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 05, 2021 2:12 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by bstoner »

A ZL1 converter is fine for a budget converter. A step up would be a triple disk Yank or Circle D. If you are going FI you don't want a high stall rpm. Any new converter will need tuned.

A LS7 is a sweet motor, espcially NA, there is no replacement for displacement, but if it was me I would get a used LS2 or LS3 block along with good heads. Either aftermarket or rebuilt stock heads done over. If you have the down time pull your motor, send to machine shop for work and send heads out for work. If you can't have down time then buy a used L76, L77, LS2, LS3, L99, etc. and send it out for work. If you have the money you could buy a crate motor or pre-built motor. Depends on how handy you are, your budget, and how much down time you are ok with. Again me I would send the motor out to do lower end work and assemble myself. Keep stock crank, upgrade pistons, and rods. Pay PatG to spec a cam for you based on your build and vehicle. He has made some very fast G8s over the years! Buy a used LSA, send it to Kong to be ported, or go straight to a Whipple or TVS2300/TVS2650 for bigger power at higher cost.

Then you have to think about how big HP are you going for. Glory pulls are amazing but good luck getting traction on the street, even with slicks when you are talking 800-1000. As some 200 hp Honda takes you off then line while you peddle it out. Are you going for a quick street car or fast 1/4 car. Running DOT slicks everyday or street tires? At some point too much HP is no good if your suspension and tires are not set up to handle it. Plan on suspension work, upgraded diff, driveshaft, halfshafts, etc. They won't last under high HP cars. I would also plan on rebuilding the trans. Our trans are pretty stout but they are not bulletproof. I would have it gone through when you start talking about 500+ hp. Tuning will help it last longer but not a end all be all.
2014 Caprice PPV, 6.0L, BTR Stage 2 Cam, 3.45, 3" exhaust, Rotofab intake, Chris Henry tuned, future LSA....
bstoner
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed May 05, 2021 2:12 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by bstoner »

If you want to get an idea of what it takes to make big power I would go to G8, SS, Camaro5, CTSV boards and read up. Many guys over there have made big HP. The Caprice community is such a small group and there are not many big power Caprices out there. Off the top of my head you are going to need engine work, forced induction, driveshaft (questionable at what hp it will go), upgraded differential, halfshafts, rear suspension work, upgraded trans (again not sure at what hp it will let go) and tires.
2014 Caprice PPV, 6.0L, BTR Stage 2 Cam, 3.45, 3" exhaust, Rotofab intake, Chris Henry tuned, future LSA....
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kevink
Posts: 480
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:55 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by kevink »

bstoner wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:24 pm If you want to get an idea of what it takes to make big power I would go to G8, SS, Camaro5, CTSV boards and read up. Many guys over there have made big HP. The Caprice community is such a small group and there are not many big power Caprices out there. Off the top of my head you are going to need engine work, forced induction, driveshaft (questionable at what hp it will go), upgraded differential, halfshafts, rear suspension work, upgraded trans (again not sure at what hp it will let go) and tires.
1000 tire is a ridiculous number and I kind of think this build is a pipe dream. I mean, that's 1,250hp at the crank. You aren't doing that without a serious amount of money. When OP finds out how much money it takes to make that kind of power, he'll probably change his goal. He's looking at forged internals with possibly increased displacement, a big ass turbo or blower, huge injectors, serious fuel system, a TH400 or 4L80e, one piece driveshaft, aftermarket axles, Camaro diff with a True Trac at a minimum, 15" wheels, all aftermarket rear suspension parts, etc., etc, etc. You could probably do it with a 6L80, but this trans is a piece of shit imo, so why bother.
2011 9C3: 11.48 @118.
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kevink
Posts: 480
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:55 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by kevink »

bstoner wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:16 pmRunning DOT slicks everyday or street tires? At some point too much HP is no good if your suspension and tires are not set up to handle it.
I run drag radials on the street exclusively, and with about 500 tire, there is no traction at all. These cars just don't hook on the street even with a 275/60/15 DR. They're heavy as F and the rear suspension is not designed to plant the tire. Can you tell I'm getting bored of this platform? haha.
2011 9C3: 11.48 @118.
Notorious
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:00 pm

Re: New Member looking to build my Caprice

Post by Notorious »

bstoner wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:16 pm A ZL1 converter is fine for a budget converter. A step up would be a triple disk Yank or Circle D. If you are going FI you don't want a high stall rpm. Any new converter will need tuned.

A LS7 is a sweet motor, espcially NA, there is no replacement for displacement, but if it was me I would get a used LS2 or LS3 block along with good heads. Either aftermarket or rebuilt stock heads done over. If you have the down time pull your motor, send to machine shop for work and send heads out for work. If you can't have down time then buy a used L76, L77, LS2, LS3, L99, etc. and send it out for work. If you have the money you could buy a crate motor or pre-built motor. Depends on how handy you are, your budget, and how much down time you are ok with. Again me I would send the motor out to do lower end work and assemble myself. Keep stock crank, upgrade pistons, and rods. Pay PatG to spec a cam for you based on your build and vehicle. He has made some very fast G8s over the years! Buy a used LSA, send it to Kong to be ported, or go straight to a Whipple or TVS2300/TVS2650 for bigger power at higher cost.

Then you have to think about how big HP are you going for. Glory pulls are amazing but good luck getting traction on the street, even with slicks when you are talking 800-1000. As some 200 hp Honda takes you off then line while you peddle it out. Are you going for a quick street car or fast 1/4 car. Running DOT slicks everyday or street tires? At some point too much HP is no good if your suspension and tires are not set up to handle it. Plan on suspension work, upgraded diff, driveshaft, halfshafts, etc. They won't last under high HP cars. I would also plan on rebuilding the trans. Our trans are pretty stout but they are not bulletproof. I would have it gone through when you start talking about 500+ hp. Tuning will help it last longer but not a end all be all.
I'll have to research more on these torque converters, see whats best to suit a current NA car and then future FI. As for motor a pre build crate motor is sweet too but id honestly save the money for a whipple or 2650 and get it ported from kong and slap it on to the L77.

My target is definitely 1,000 whp but im gonna take my sweet time, its no rush for me now, i'll slowly build the caprice up and because the car is already heavy enough at around 4,000 lbs it needs all the power it can get for those highway and street pulls. I plan on running both slicks and radials switching back and forth for the rears and normal performance street tires like pirelli or 4s pilot etc for the front once i start going past 6-700 whp and yes i'll defintely work on the suspension and tranny, i've already decided on that. I know a few people in Saudi and gulf countries having caprices well over 1,200 whp either on turbo or SC so will consult with them too on their builds.
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