Brake Speculation

[CrashTestDummy]

I was looking at Wilwood, comparing bits between the SS and the G8. It looks like costs for just the front big brake kit from them, and I'm not certain if you'd have to go with the SS kit, or pick and choose between the SS and G8 (using the SS rotor, of course), are in the $2100. It looks like you put together a viable kit for all 4 corners for right at $1K. Very nice!

[hjm003]

How many miles did you get out of your oem pads? I just put pads and cross drilled rotors on. 30k miles. I'm rocking a 2011 gm demo car. Just getting this straight... The ss has larger calipers that bolt right up? If I can go for a more powerful caliper without changing rotors on the cheap I will do the upgrade.

[Navy Lifer]

Not sure if your questions are for me, but here goes:

I removed the OE PPV front pads at ~15K, but they were not used up--I wanted to try something else to cut down the dusting and noise (squeal). The OE Camaro pads are still on, but at 46K+ miles, it's time to do the changeover to the Brembo setup using the 355mm front and 360mm rear rotors as found on the 2015 SS sedan. I can still report that the change to the Camaro (V6/LS/LT) pads was successful, in my opinion.

OE PPV rotor diameters are 345mm front and 324mm rear. There IS a possible front caliper swap that can be done using the J55 (heavy duty) twin-piston floating caliper found on 2nd generation CTS (not CTS-V), using the same 345mm front rotor. I acquired most of the parts for this, but do not intend to install them on my PPV, since I'm going straight to the Brembo configuration. To be clear, the Brembo calipers are NOT compatible with the stock-size (345mm) front rotors.

I've not mentioned this before now, I don't think, but I can dig around and find the stuff, put up some pictures and PN's, if interested.

[GTObert]

I removed my OEM pads at around 15k miles. I had 80% pad left or better. I've owned mine since new though, so it hasn't been a used by some cop.

[xcidmigs]

I'm at 16k now and just checked I'd estimate i have well over 60% remaining? Again on a non patrol used car.

[4$akn69]

Hey Ive read on a G8 forum that the 2nd gen cts-v 6 piston caliper has the same bolt pattern than the 1st gen cts-v so probably everything should bolt up to the caprice as well, since the 4 piston were bolt on.

[xcidmigs]

this was already confirmed and covered in another thread...

http://newcaprice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=750" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Navy Lifer]

DISCLAIMER - this is a first stab at this, and I'll be happy to edit/correct as appropriate. The info is based on what I was able to glean from the GM parts books at the local dealer.

Most common approach seems to be the use of early CTS-V calipers due to their lower cost, so it is necessary to make a choice on the approach taken to do this properly--see discussion further down.

Caliper bolt sizing for Brembo conversions:

Fastener size for PPV front caliper mount to upright is M14, rear is M12.

First generation Brembo - CTS-V and G8 GXP front calipers mount with M12 x 1.75 bolts

Second generation Brembo - includes CTS-V (6-piston—also on ZL1 Camaro), 2010-2015 Camaro SS, and 14-15 SS sedan--all use M14 x 2.0 bolts for front calipers.

Fastener size for all Brembo rear calipers is M12 x 1.75

OE fastener list for Zeta platform – G8 GXP, Camaro SS, PPV, SS sedan:

PPV standard (single-piston) caliper mounts:
F – 11570092 (M14x2x51) (common with Camaro V6)
R – 92172963 (M12x1.5x40)

Brembo caliper mounting fastener list:
F – 11570788 (M14x2x56.5) (SS sedan, Camaro SS/ZL1)
R – 92139080 (M12x1.75x45) (SS sedan, also used as FRONT for G8 GXP)
R – 11515781 (M12x1.75x60) (Camaro SS)

Banjo bolts & crush washers:
Bolt - 11569590 (sourced from Camaro SS) - M10x1.0
Washer - 21012386

In the process of adding Brembo front calipers to a PPV, if using 1st design calipers (04-07 CTS-V or G8 GXP), there are two options:

1. Modify the caliper mount ears (on caliper body) by re-drilling and tapping to the M14x2.0 thread spec. This is an aluminum part—the question/concern would be whether new threads would be durable enough to mount the calipers and apply the proper torque specs without the threads yielding. It would be possible to install a threaded insert (Heli-coil or similar) for this purpose as an alternative. Use bolt PN 11570788.

2. Install a bushing in the upright positions to reduce the hole size from 14mm to 12mm—an appropriate bushing would have an OD of 18mm, so it will be necessary to open up the holes in the uprights to fit the bushings to provide the 12mm hole for the “correct” bolts – PN 92139080--note that the alternate bolt 11515781, is 15mm longer, but far less expensive. A spacer combined with the longer bolt may be a reasonable alternative.

My preference would be to use method option 1, as I believe it would ultimately be more robust--GM changed the caliper mounting to 14mm fasteners for a reason....if I had some later calipers, this would not be an issue, but I chose the early CTS-V path, so I've got to make a choice.

Torque values for mounting Brembo calipers:

Caliper bolt (F&R) 30 lb/ft +90 degrees
Brake hose fitting - 30 lb/ft
Bleed valve - 13 lb/ft

[Navy Lifer]

Yes, this is the way this car was always meant to be.

OK, I'm hoping to find out whether the brake hoses on the PPV can be used as-is to mount to the Brembo calipers, or if any modification or alternate part(s) became necessary. What can you tell us?

I just reviewed this thread and found your use of the Russell G8 hose kit--was that because the OE hoses would not work, or that you just wanted to change to a braided stainless/teflon-lined setup?

Anyone actually do any of this yet? I've called a couple dealers and can't get a straight answer on what bolt would be necessary to tighten the calipers to the knuckles. I found a forum post with a number for the fronts but I'm not sure if it applies to the rear as well.

Looks good Gtobert looks real good ! So what did you find out about the bolt ?

It is what everyone else said to do. The thing is I didn't think it would be that big of a deal to pull the hubs and replace the shield. I've changed a lot of wheel bearings in my day but I've never seen a setup like this. I couldn't see an easy way to remove them, so I just went ahead and cut the shields. And I just plain forgot about the spare tire. So sorry.

The combination of parts, and this will not include part numbers as I bought all this stuff a really long time ago, is as follows:

Calipers front and rear from 2007 CTS-V, paid around $120 each from amazon
Banjo bolts from CTS-V, the original banjos will not fit. There may be a shorter banjo meant for the rear but I made them work.
Stainless steel braided lines for a G8 from Russell, about $100
Front rotors from Camaro SS, OEM parts, $75 or so each from amazon
Rear rotors from SS, info can be found on these further back in this thread, I remember thinking they weren't cheap
Redstuff pads from EBC brakes
Front caliper mounting bolts from CTS-V
Rear caliper mounting bolts from the local hardware store, M12x1.75x45 grade 10.9, M12 washers too

The only thing I was a little concerned about was the mounting holes for the front calipers. The new caliper uses an M12 bolt and the original used a 9/16" or possibly 14mm. This means when you install the new caliper there is some slop in the bolt hole, about 1mm gap around the bolt. I though about either drilling out the caliper to a 14mm hole or sleeving the knuckle with a roll pin or something similar, but in the end I just tightened everything down and it works fine. I've been driving around with the fronts for a couple months now and there are no issues. If I was autocrossing this thing I might be more concerned, but I'm not doing that anytime soon.

So, it's now "resolved" that the 1st-Gen CTS-V calipers are viable. I'm having mine drilled to the 14mm spec--the torque value is low enough that I'm confident that the threads will be adequate to hold the 30 lb/ft +90 degrees, whatever that total torque is.

[GTObert]

I used the Russell kit because, well, why not? They are hoses for a G8 and they look exactly the same as the factory ones I pulled off. I don't see why the originals wouldn't work.

The banjo bolts from the original calipers will not work and there is a shorter version for the rears, but as I said I was able to make the long version work with a bit of persuasion. This may or may not be the case if you use the factory lines. The issue would be the difference in height of the steel mounting block.

The mounting bolt you have listed for the rear of the SS sedan is the correct choice.