Brake Speculation

Suspension, brake, and hydraulic/electric steering discussion.
Navy Lifer
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer »

S13REMI wrote: In regards to my intital post I am doing a ZL1 brake conversion on my caprice. What I have found so far is the following. The front calipers and rotors bolt right up on our cars, and can use the factory brake hoses on our cars.

The rear is where I ran into trouble. The off set of the ZL1 rotor does not work with the ZL1 caliper and our stock spindle. There is about a 1/2" space between Caliper and spindle when the Caliper is centered on the rotor.
I picked up a set of 15 SS rear rotors from Advance (assuming they gave me the correct parts) the rotor's diameter was about an inch to small. I should have snagged a picture. The spacing of the rotor was perfect and would have allowem me to bolt the calipers right to the knuckle though.

LOOKING INTO THIS FURTHER I THINK I WAS GIVEN THE WRONG PARTs
edit again they gave me the right part according to their computers. I think their computers are wrong. The description of the part says its only 12.7 inches as apposed to the 13.7ish the ZL1 rear rotors are
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/car ... tor+-+rear" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
OK....here's some further comment:

ZL1 rear brakes are exactly the same as standard Camaro SS (2010-2015) Brembos--only difference is the paint job on the calipers.

The Camaro (and 2nd Gen CTS-V) rear rotor is 365mm diameter (14.2") and has a larger park brake "drum" for the DIH (Drum In Hat) park brake system compared to the PPV, SS Sedan, and G8 rear brakes.

The correct rear rotor for installing Brembo calipers on PPV (and SS/G8) is from the 2015-2017 SS sedan - 360mm diameter, with the 190mm park brake drum size common to PPV, SS Sedan & G8 (and a number of other vehicles, including Corvette and 94-96 Impala SS).

It does sound like the incorrect rotor was identified and supplied--and is actually the same size as the PPV uses - 324mm, or 12.7", which WAS the original size used on the 2014 SS Sedan, which used the same single-piston caliper as on PPV.

At this point, I'm only aware of two sources for the correct rear rotor--either GM or Centric. I do not know if Advance Auto Parts sells Centric.

Here are the specs listed (incorrectly) at Advance Auto Parts for the 2015 SS Sedan rear rotor:
(in reality, this is the 2014 SS Sedan rear rotor)
Discard Thickness: 20 mm
Bolt Hole Quantity: 5
Bolt Circle Diameter: 4.72 in
Outside Diameter: 12.76 in (324mm)
Height: 2.20 in
Nominal Thickness: 22 mm (compare to correct rotor below at 28mm)

These are the correct specs for the rotor you need:
(Centric online listing)
https://centricparts.centriccatalog.com ... =1&uid=ANR&" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
enginelord
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Location: N. Illinois

Re: Brake Speculation

Post by enginelord »

My car is an '11..Do the Camaro FRONT rotors fit or not? The '10-'15 or the '16-'18'? As far as off-set and/or hub size? (not referring to diameters). '16 Camaro front rotor part numbers are different than the '11 PPV.. even though they are both 345mm. I feel I have read everything everywhere.(G8/Caprice forums, etc.) lol It seems that most of what I've found applies to adding of Brembos to the rears, bolt sizes, wheel clearances, good places to buy, different car options, debates on big brake benefits, hoses and everything in between. As far as brakes up front though, mostly references to using 345's or going from 345 to 355, using Chevy SS or GXP G8 or stock PPV rotors. So, I've seen all rear options covered well, and some front options. But, bottom line, can you install '12-'15 ZL1 front 6 piston Brembo calipers with using the front Camaro 370mm rotors? Perhaps as long as they are '12-'15? Isn't there a issue with Camaro rotors on our cars? Not up front?? Or is it just the park brake issues with the rears? I have the entire '13 ZL1 drive-train sitting here, complete w/ rear cradle and the ZL1 Brembo all around brakes from the same car. Hoping to use the front 6 pistons and rotors. '12-'15 ZL1's are the only 370mm (368mm actually).
CrashTestDummy
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by CrashTestDummy »

Some of that depends on whether or not you are sticking with the factory steel rims, or not. There are a couple of options with OEM wheels, and more with 19+ wheels.

Also, WHICH Camaro brakes are you referring to? There are at least two different sizes.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2018 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
1980 Bluebird Wanderlodge
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?
enginelord
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by enginelord »

LOL, you must be foolin with me. My post is very long winded, intentionally to cover any questions someone may ask.. too long maybe was the issue, lol, as it says, '13 ZL1 6 piston Brembos. And as said,the rotor diameter was not my concern. (20" wheels) It was rotor hub hole or rotor 'hat' offset. But I think I just figured it out. I got it, front SS Camaro rotors 'do' fit. Same part numbers as as '09 G8's and '14-'15 Chevy SS so they must. :idea: I appreciate the help anyhow. Not using OEM steelies, if PPV 'purist' are out there, they won't like my car. I eventually will post what I'm doing. (part Euro supercar, part tacky '90's JDM, part American muscle)
Navy Lifer
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer »

wheel diameter isn't always the issue with the 6-piston/370 brakes - it CAN be the wheel choice does not provide clearance on the front/outboard face of the caliper. Hope you are lucky with the 20" Camaro wheels!

The OEM wheels used with the ZL1 were specific to that model.
enginelord
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by enginelord »

Thank you, that is interesting. So you say 6 pistons require more clearance than SS 4 pistons right? Not just the obvious outer diameter, but towards the wheel 'spokes'. I'm using aftermarket 20" . I have my new wheels sitting here and I still have a set of ZL1 wheels here too. I guess I'll have to compare them as far as caliper clearance, the offset of the Zl1 are not right for me from what i figure, so there are to be sold. I was hoping someone who has done or tried to put the 370/6 pistons on already would see this, long shot.
Navy Lifer
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer »

With the right wheel, I've seen the 370/6 setup on a G8 GXP with 18's

This package is most common for SS sedan owners, and in their case, the stock 19" wheel needs a 3mm spacer for spoke to caliper body clearance. The 370 rotor is 34mm thick, where the 355/4 (stock SS) combination has a rotor that is 32mm thick. Doesn't sound like much, but the OE sedan wheel offsets and spoke profiles were more restrictive than the Camaro and Cadillac that used the 370/6 brakes....at the same time, the SS sedan, as well as the PPV, has less room to play in this area, depending on wheel and tire size choices.

Stock SS sedan front wheels are 8.5", with a +48mm offset--there is some room to push them outward, but too far and other issues come into play. I've run the Camaro Gen6 18x8.5 +32mm wheel in front with no issues, but it's not as friendly in the rear. The lowest comfortable offset, before rolling fenders, is about +38mm, no matter what you're doing, even though there are PPV owners using 20" Gen6 Camaro wheels (8.5" +25 front/9.5" +39 rear) reporting no issues - they have to be running stock PPV springs and short tires to do that. And that STILL doesn't guarantee the 370/6 front brakes aren't going to need a spacer for the wheel to clear the front caliper.

If you are after a wheel that is most likely to work with the 370/6 brakes, and you want to use 20", the aftermarket is probably your best option. Otherwise, I'd look at Cadillac CTS-V (2nd gen) which I recall are 19". They are made to clear the bigger brakes, and don't have offsets that are significantly different from the Zeta sedans. Bottom line, take a look at what Tire Rack says FITS CTS-V with the big brakes, and you should find plenty of wheels that have been confirmed to fit & clear.
enginelord
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Location: N. Illinois

Re: Brake Speculation

Post by enginelord »

Thank you for the response. As I stated in the post, I have new aftermarket 20" wheels and decided against the 20"x10" Camaro wheels I have, because I believe the 10"x20" Camaro's I have are 25mm offset. (6.4" backspacing , not enough). Not going to work by a longshot. But I do have the 8.5"x18" 2016 Camaro wheels on the car now you speak of, and yes, no issues up front but clearance issues in rear when suspension goes through it's travel. (6.01" backspacing) My new 20" aftermarket wheels appear to be very clearance friendly for the calipers. That part I was not worried about. Just how the caliper and rotor mounts and sits. I think I'll be Ok.
Kinda off topic but,as far as wheel/tire REAR FENDER clearance, that can and will be dealt with. (going with a lot of backspacing and 305mm tires) no doubt I will be doing serious fender mod, more than just a 'roll'. But I'm also using a ZL1 complete rear carrier, someone on here said there was just a slight 3/8" overall width difference between the 2 carriers, I could use that help with my plan to push the rear tires 'in' as close to the inner fender as possible.(even that can be changed). But now I'm off topic and flooding the chat (sorry), I was just wanting to be sure ZL1 calipers and rotors would work up front. Regardless of wheel issues. Thanks to you and others I see The 6 piston calipers and rotors will work up front. There was a lot of chat here about hardware and hoses, prices part numbers, wheels, rear fitment, etc. That stuff can be changed or fabricated. But, caliper mounting bolt spread, centering alignments, hub bore, etc. not as easy (or maybe not at all).
CrazyIvan
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by CrazyIvan »

Ok, so I gotta ask. I have been reading into the whole brembo upgrade. I wanted to ask. What general setup is suggested or used with the Gen 6 front calipers. I see them going out of stock and I am getting the 50th anniversary ones here in the next week. I use the OEM Rotor spec with the Gen 6 calipers and OEM Camaro pads? or the PPV?
Navy Lifer
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Re: Brake Speculation

Post by Navy Lifer »

CI, here you go:

Gen6 Camaro 4-piston caliper (Brembo 2nd design)

Stock PPV 345mm rotor (or any variant for PPV front from numerous sources) - Camaro/Alpha 345 rotor DOES NOT work, different hat height

Pads - FMSI D1474A (with small dampers) - there is no requirement to run these pads, and FMSI D1001 pads (no dampers) will also work. OEM Camaro pads for the Gen6 calipers are D1474A
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