brake service at 15K miles

[Navy Lifer]

time for a "mod day".....got a location?

[Navy Lifer]

Finally, in an effort to get better rotors for PPV, I approached my contact at DBA (Disc Brakes Australia) some months ago. The development of an application takes time, and whenever the contact is made within 6 months of SEMA (which ends today), new products will generally not surface until some point after early November of each year. I was told we ought to see the DBA heavy duty Police Pursuit Series rotor for PPV early next year. How ironic that here's a car built in Australia, but there's been no effort to provide a DBA rotor for it until now!

http://www.dbausa.com/products/police-pursuit-series-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In fact, go to the DBA USA Facebook page and leave an inquiry about when they will have PPV rotors available: https://www.facebook.com/DBAUSA?hc_location=stream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UPDATE from my DBA contact:
Bill,

Tooling is almost completed.

Expect to have first parts shipped April.

Okay Bill, I've waited long enough. Tell me about the duct in the photo marked teaser.

Tom, the ducts are from Cadillac CTS (non-V) - PN's are:
15272166 curved duct (x2)
20772527 LH - as used in production
20772528 RH

Parts callout for CTS uses several different configurations/combinations depending on model, and this was what I thought would be best for my plans. The end result for me is that I would be using the existing fog lamp bezels as the air source, and would end up doing a new auxiliary light (fog/driving) setup in the lower center bumper cover opening. There are probably other ways to accomplish this, if you want to pursue something else, or in combination with these ducts--such as the Quantam brake cooling kit linked in my earlier reply to you.

While I imagine I'll end up with a Brembo caliper system using CTS-V (2004-2007) calipers and rotors eventually, assuming they will clear 18" wheels, the other thing I have been looking at is running the CTS J55 HD brake twin-piston calipers on front--as mentioned earlier, the PPV and CTS J55 brakes share the same 345mm rotor. At this point I have not done a build-up & fit check, but I do have parts to do so--what I don't know is whether the CTS J55 caliper will fit & clear the stock steel wheel. When I finally do get that done, I'll provide another update.

[elc32955]

OK, front brakes are done and I used the Camaro V6 pads, same as you did Bill. The difference in the stopping power was immediately noticeable, but easy to compensate for with a little additional pedal pressure. I did a good car wash on the wheels so we'll see how the dusting goes with these pads.

BTW both front rotors were below minimum so the front stock PPV pads are definitely very, very abrasive. 28.1mm at 33.7k miles.

[Navy Lifer]

So you have new rotors, too? OE or aftermarket?

What I did find is that during initial break-in, there's more dusting--though not as bad as the PPV pads--but it does diminish significantly after a short time.

[elc32955]

New OEM rotors. I used the 25946317 part number to have the shop order them since they're identical to the PPV rotors.

After the fact I had a friend point out to me that Powerstop makes a complete package for the Caprice fronts with drilled & slotted rotors, but I elected to stay OEM and not go the aftermarket route. As long as we can cut some of the dusting I'm good, tired of having black powder-coat wheels in front... They'll get a good break-in as I'm getting ready to hop on the Interstate - headed to Biloxi, MS for the 4-day weekend.

[Navy Lifer]

After the fact I had a friend point out to me that Powerstop makes a complete package for the Caprice fronts with drilled & slotted rotors,....

If you look at my history of comments on Impala SS Forum, you'll see that I adamantly oppose drilled rotors--period. I'll never change from that position.

Slotted is OK, but certainly not essential.

You did the right thing.

[Tom Slick]

DBA says mid to late April of this year...

If I remember correctly, the Australian V8 Supercars had slotted (curved slots) and no cross-drilling... the problem with cross-drilling is the potential for cracking.

I like the curved slots better than straight slots, again because of better rigidity and less of a chance for cracking.

Later,
Tom Slick

[Navy Lifer]

Tom, it's not a given that even slotting is necessary or "always" beneficial.

For a racing vehicle, at the pro level, including V8SC, it's almost a given the rotors are discarded between meets, no matter what surface treatment they have.

Slotting reduces rotor mass, and while the PPV, if so-equipped, may not suffer from the small amount lost to machining the slot design, it's still taking metal (mass) away from a thermal collector and emitter. What's the tradeoff in doing so? If cracking COULD be promoted by slotting, I'd prefer to stay clear--though the likelihood is much less than with drilled rotors, which is why (finally) the C7 Z51 is now fitted with slotted rotors, where the C6 Z51 was drilled, as was Z06 and GrandSport.

A street vehicle, as I consider PPV (and the new SS) is an entirely different matter, IMO, as rotors will be on the car typically until they reach service replacement limit, which is, ideally, expected to be a fairly long time, whether in years or miles driven (the obvious here is that V8SC rotors may be completely sacrificed in a weekend of racing, and it's a given that they are routinely replaced before the next round of races) - so, unless there is something really dramatic in the way of improved performance via slotting of the rotor surfaces, to me it's not necessary, but a matter of preference, or, in reality, simply bling factor.

The DBA police rotors may or may not be "default" slotted, which I'm unable to determine from online info only--IMO it's something of a gimmick, as it is probably harder to convince potential customers that there's anything special about a plain rotor. If given a choice, I generally will go with plain rotors, every time--maximum mass for the application.

[Tom Slick]

The slots also allow for gas evacuation and add a little more to stopping ability (as the cost of increased brake pad wear).

I'd pick slotted over regular rotors any day of the week...

Later,
Tom Slick

[9C1fanatic]

I just had the front brakes replaced at the city garage on the patrol vehicle at 12,100 miles. I was down to the wear indicators and there was a significant ridge as Bill described on his brakes. I am a little surprised Bill's brakes did not last longer than they did but then again I don't know how he uses the car. For what its worth, 15,000-20,000 miles is the average life span for front brakes on the CVPIs using Raybestos, Bendix, CARQUEST and OE pads in our fleet. So getting 12,000 out of a Caprice patrol car seemed reasonable given the fact its brakes are far superior and the vehicle has significantly higher performance than a CVPI which in my case means slowing the car from higher speeds than a CVPI in almost any given situation during emergency use.

This prompted me to do some checking to see exactly what brand of replacement parts they used. I saw the "edge code" on the new pads to be HP1000/1 FF. For reference, every other high performing brake pad I have every bought from Bendix Fleet Metlock to PBR has had friction ratings of EE. H is the highest friction rating I believe on a brake pad. This is identical to the pads on my personal 2014 Caprice which have never been replaced. They are the OE pads made by Federal Mogul. Yes these are very high performance pads so the trade off is less rotor life, and higher cost. One source shows these pads to retail around $150.00. The Caprice has among the best brakes in the industry.

One tested alternative I can recommend for those wanting to retain the fade resistant qualities most police vehicle brakes have without the high price. Raybestos Advanced Technology Police Pursuit & Patrol line of brake pads and rotors. We have used these rotors and pads since 2008 on the CVPI and Tahoes with great success. No fade, zero pulsation felt throughout the life of the brake service. Unfortunately, we stopped using them this year because our only local distributor stopped stocking that brand (CARQUEST). The city has since started using a NAPA line which has been met with some negative feedback from some officers. I found out the garage has been buying the rotors and pads from the GM dealer for the Caprice because Napa never has the parts in stock for the Caprice and the dealer does. Given how expensive they are, I'm not optimistic this will last. I'm working to find another distributor or at least convince the garage to buy online and start a small stock in house of the parts given how successful our 7 year run with the Raybestos parts were on the CVPI and Tahoes.

Part Numbers
Raybestos Advanced Technology Police Pursuit & Patrol front pads ATP1404P $40.00
Raybestos Advanced Technology Police Pursuit & Patrol rear pads ATP1352P $42.90
Raybestos Advanced Technology Police Pursuit & Patrol Rotors 580676P $69.93 each

prices are from raysbestbrakes.com, a Raybestos retailer.