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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:12 am
Posts: 286
Location: phx az
yeah i think that it was probst

the cradles will be different since the ppv has a manual park brake and the SS uses a electric park brake , which is mounted to the cradle

the 15-17 also has corner vectoring brake system


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:32 am 
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Location: Canton GA
something to consider:

Looking at GM parts info, quite a few parts are already coming up as DISCONTINUED. Even if that is the case I have not checked actual inventory in the US--most Holden-unique parts for PPV & SS are stocked in the Lansing MI PDC. A status of DISC does not mean no parts are on the shelf--only that what is on the shelf is not going to be replenished.

As it pertains to this specific discussion, the 2015-2017 SS rear stabilizer is listed as DISC, while the 2014 SS rear stabilizer is still an active PN.

This opens up the possibility of using an aftermarket rear stabilizer bar--there are a number of options in that realm, and I would say that anything larger than the 22mm rear bar from BMR would require the use of an improved clamping system similar to what I'm using with the 15-17 SS rear bar.

The bracket design is finalized and one final fit-check will be done before installation--welding of the brackets and, finally, installation of the rear bar.

At least one PPV owner here has indicated interest in having a pair of these adapter brackets. The fabricator will be preserving the bracket dimensions in order to make more, but unless more step forward, this could be a one & done deal--I can see making a batch of these "one time", but it will be just that, not an open-ended deal where stock will be on the shelf somewhere in the future.

I can make some sketches/drawings with dimensions, so they could be duplicated, but it's not really that difficult--my design is largely based on what material the fabricator had laying around, and the clamp dimensions, nothing more.

Bottom line--if you think you may want a set of these brackets, regardless of what rear bar you expect or hope to use, let me know now.

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inov8r@windstream.net


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Posts: 1415
Location: Pearland, Texas
Bill,

Probably one of those things I'll never install, but while they're building them, I'll take a set. We have a BMR rear bar on our car currently, and have not seen any issues with the mounts even though we've autocrossed the car a couple of times, but if one breaks, we'd be SOL. Thank you.

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Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Omaha, NE area
Bill, put me down for a set. As always, thanks for your ingenuity and for sharing your thoughts!

Regards,
Maurice

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Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:53 am 
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Location: Canton GA
OK....so, I'll plan on making 6 sets, and we'll see where things go from there. So far I think 3 sets would be spoken for. I don't have a cost at this point, but I'm estimating it would be less than $40.

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Bill Harper
inov8r@windstream.net


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:08 am
Posts: 77
Location: Wisconsin
Is this exclusively for performance application or simply for enthusiasts that want a heavier duty set? I would also be interested in a set for around 40. I just skimmed over the first page, how much modification has to be made? I have a 13.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:28 pm 
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Location: Canton GA
In this case, I'd say "both"--but the reality is that "heavy duty" is already how the PPV is equipped. But, let's dig into that a little bit.

The fabricated plates shown in the first post of this thread are necessary to properly mount & support the heavier/stiffer SS bar. These plates will be welded to the existing sway bar mounting points, which now are securing either a 16mm (2011-2013) or 20mm bar, using a single-bolt bracket one each side. As shown, the larger bars are secured using a 2-bolt bracket and a more robust bushing on each side.

The PPV spring package takes into consideration that the normal usage of the vehicle is likely to include a trunk load of equipment--creating a rearward weight bias. That can upset the handling characteristics of the car, if not for Stabilitrak "saving" the car/driver from the tendency for that extra weight to act as a pendulum and cause the car to be tail-happy.

The spring rates for PPV are higher compared to G8 or SS, along with ride height, to compensate for that extra load. Too large a rear sway bar, by itself, would increase the overall stiffness/spring rate of the rear, making the car more tail-happy (oversteer) before Stabilitrak catches it--a feature, depending on model year, which can be turned off.

I recommend that the larger rear bar--either the 2014 SS (narrow style--same shape as on PPV) or 2015-2017 SS (wide style) bars--be used in conjunction with SS sedan springs, or something other than the stock PPV springs. The reasoning here is that the stock PPV spring & sway bar setup has an overall rate, with the front vs rear bar size that favors understeer at the limit.

By using the SS rear sway bar, the effect will be to move the handling more toward neutral--using the SS rear bar(s) in conjunction with the PPV springs will result in a greater change--possibly past neutral and into oversteer territory, not to mention the PPV springs result in a much harsher ride, so that's why I believe the SS springs should be used if an SS (rear) bar is added. The larger SS bar/SS springs with the stock PPV front bar (24 or 26mm depending on year) will still make the car more responsive.

To reiterate something already mentioned--the use of the 15-17 SS rear bar also requires changing the rear lower control arms AND conversion to Brembo rear disc brakes. The 2014 SS rear bar requires neither of these changes, although the rear sway bar link setup for 2014 was unique and is a combination of the bar (28mm) and SS-specific rear lower control arms. The 28mm bar is so stiff that it COULD be a problem for the stock PPV lower arm bar link attachment point, without some sort of modification/reinforcement--BMR makes a kit for this, but I'm not sure if it works on PPV control arms--may only be for G8.

As far as the front, there's only one OE option, and that is the 26mm bar used on all 14-17 PPV & SS. There are other aftermarket options--both front & rear.

Bigger does not mean better, necessarily, so do not assume that throwing HUGE bars on fixes anything without thinking things through. The PPV is a long, heavy vehicle compared to the similar chassis--G8/SS and 5thGen Camaro--so the effect of a substantial change is likely to be less dramatic.

There may be availability issues with the OE 26mm front bar and the 15-17 SS 25mm rear bar. I'll be researching that in the coming week.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:17 am 
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Posts: 599
Location: SE PA
Is this the 2014 rear bar parts?

https://www.gmpartsgiant.com/parts/gm-s ... =&Filter=()&Location=suspension-rear-stabilizer-shaft,,eef102cef0fb20063c01102f7046ec7f

And does this require that you buy the end links for that model also? I realize the clamp piece and bushing has to be from the SS bar but not sure the links are different and they are not cheap


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:28 am 
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Location: Canton GA
Yes....with that bar (28mm) the link is critical. Unless you change to the 14 SS rear lower control arms, I don't think the OE link will work properly, since it is a double-shear design that really would not work properly otherwise.

Instead, an aftermarket setup may be more appropriate, or maybe take a look at what is used on the 5thGen Camaro for a solution.
BMR link kit: https://www.bmrsuspension.com/index.cfm ... superpro=0

Yes, they're more expensive than the OE links for 2014 SS, but they'll work right.

So, you spend money & effort for the correct lower control arms AND links, or you use the BMR links. Finding a 14 SS with a front-end hit would be your option.

The other thing to investigate is whether the PPV lower control arm would benefit from reinforcement for the sway bar link, considering the increase in size and stiffness (going from PPV 16mm to SS 28mm)

I do not know if this brace kit from BMR will work--Gene has a kit I sold him, along with a 22mm BMR rear bar, but I don't know if he's using it, or if it fits the PPV arms. Perhaps a call to BMR would help clarify things.
https://www.bmrsuspension.com/index.cfm ... superpro=0

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inov8r@windstream.net


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Posts: 1415
Location: Pearland, Texas
I could not figure out how those brackets went in without a lot of work, and probably some grinding on the brackets. So I installed the swaybar and links without them. We've had no issues with the kit, though, and have actually autocrossed the car a couple of times. Sure, it's with the street tires, but the track has a pretty aggressive surface, so we did get some decent action out of the suspension. No issues. Well, maybe one issue; the links are pretty cheap. When we went in to install the coil-overs, I had to undo the sway bar links so we could drop the LCA low enough to get the shock in place. One of the rubber boots on each link was coming apart (not the same boot, either). Since we don't live in a place where they use salt much, and if they're using salt, I'm staying home(!), I figured I'd worry about that when we install the ZL1 LCAs.

_________________
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?


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