New Caprice - Discussion forums

More to follow, but here's a revelation for all using Russell or Goodridge hose kits for the G8 GT

http://newcaprice.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 647#p16947" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Navy Lifer wrote:Gene, it can be a bit confusing, since we're talking about multiple variants of the same/similar platform.

You are correct that it is "settled" as far as the pre-2014 vehicles--the G8 kits work for the PPV 2011-2013 PPV. I'm not saying the kit is exactly what the manufacturers would have produced, considering that Goodridge lists a different/specific PN for their PPV kit--if one can actually be found and purchased.

I also do not presume that the hose kit suppliers would configure a kit for a non-standard (ie. not as configured for production) setup such as doing the Brembo upgrade to a PPV, but we've learned that there is some "flexibility" in the existing kits, which is good, even though their product lists identify only the vehicle they originally designed the kit for. The hose manufacturers are not going to produce kits for any possible combination that could be employed--we're just lucky that the G8 GT kits happen to work, but the kit won't go into catalogs with a broadened application listing unless or until it's validated on other vehicles, and I don't know if either source would even be interested in doing that.

If I still lived in SoCal, I'd do this myself, but if someone in the Los Angeles area happens to put a Russell 692210 kit on their PPV, with either stock or Brembo calipers, and then approaches Russell (via Edelbrock in Torrance CA), to show them that it DOES work, we're not certain, at this point & based on the initial response I got when I asked, whether they would willingly take any action to add PPV or SS to the listing/coverage, even if it means they would sell more of the 692210 kits. The same would go for Goodridge for some of the Midwest/Indiana/Indianapolis guys. Some of you LA guys weigh-in here, please!

I have to take some degree of responsibility here, so everyone understands--only in the past 24 hours have I conducted an eyeball verification of the actual fitting design found on PPV's. It is NOT a matter of changing between 2013 & 2014 or WM to WN platform. PPV and SS use the same fitting design, from 2011 to 2017. I assumed something, lacking evidence, that was not true....anecdotal vs hard evidence.

Just glad you git a chance to see it. The whole issue seemed very merky to me when I was reading on the SS board. Anxiously awaiting your results.

So what gives?

I haven't had any issues with leaks and the install was easier than some stock parts I've installed.

Are they gonna be all screwed up the next time I try to replace them?

I'll post pictures soon, as I know everyone would like to see for themselves, but here are the "numbers":

Caprice PPV uses the same rear brake hose PN from 2011-2017. It has an inverted-flare M10x1.0 fitting configuration--GM PN 92265260--and the 2014 SS Performance Sedan also uses this same PN, since the rear brakes are the same as PPV. The physical verification of this was by looking at one of the removed caliper/hose assemblies from Scott Walker's (novadeuce) PPV, with full-Brembo conversion.

2015-2017 SS Performance Sedan uses a different rear hose, PN 92292535, also inverted-flare M10x1.0 fitting configuration. Very little real observable difference between this hose (for Brembo calipers) and the PPV/2014 SS hose.

Further confirmation, in the case of PPV, was to obtain the rear (cross-cradle) hard line that provides the connection point for the left rear brake pressure joint, PN 92226533, and it, too, is an inverted-flare configuration, with M10x1.0 flare nut.

I've been looking to see if there are any types of adapters that could "fix" this issue, but so far, nothing--if one exists, it would add unwanted length at the pressure joint, which is affixed to a bracket on the chassis, and would require bending the hard line or moving the bracket--neither being good solutions, even IF an adapter was located.

Here's a YouTube video I suggest (there are plenty more) that does a reasonable job of showing how inverted-flare and ISO bubble joints differ, and hopefully shows why they won't work (properly) together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GMtCnwEPVg

As I have mentioned previously, Goodridge DOES have a Caprice PPV hose kit, PN 12-232, that SHOULD be correctly configured with inverted-flare connections. The question for now is availability. Russell/Edelbrock showed zero interest in doing anything for PPV or SS.

What does this ultimately mean, if using hoses made for ISO bubble-flare joints? It means that the connection does not provide proper sealing between the tube and the hose fitting--they are two different designs, and should not be mixed.

I've continued to update my contact at Goodridge (Russell seemingly isn't interested) and provided the findings as explained in my last post. While I have no idea of the actual response--the level of concern, engineering effort, time to come up with solutions, etc, this dialog and line of inquiry may eventually yield--my contact at least responds in a timely manner and has indicated that the concerns/info have been presented to their engineering team.

Based upon what I've discovered, I returned the Russell 692210 hose kit I had purchased--if I have to, I'll use OE rubber, but whether Goodridge or another source, I am pursuing the aftermarket option until it's clear there's not going to be a kit offered.

Here's the most recent (May) round of responses--edited--bold/blue are replies from Goodridge:

On 5/10/2017 9:25 PM, RC@Goodridge wrote:
These additions have been forwarded to the engineering group.

THANK YOU


From: Bill Harper [mailto:inov8r@windstream.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2017 7:16 PM
To: @goodridge.com>
Subject: Re: Goodridge G-Stop Kits for Zeta - G8 GXP, SS sedan, and Caprice PPV

One last follow-up for now...I have confirmed that all of these vehicles—2011 to 2017 Caprice PPV and 2014 to 2017 Chevy SS Performance Sedan are built with inverted-flare hard line to hose pressure joints, thus my question about the Caprice PPV 12-232 hose kit joint configuration.

What this opens up is the fact that there are quite a number of these vehicles that used the Goodridge 12-289 kit as well as a similar kit from Russell, both designed for ISO bubble flare joints. This means these vehicles are being operated with potentially compromised braking systems. Of course, this is not the fault of the manufacturers.

I don’t know what concern this raises, if any, but I thought the question is worth asking.

Best regards,
Bill

Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 9:31 AM
To: Bill Harper

Subject: RE: Goodridge G-Stop Kits for Zeta - G8 GXP, SS sedan, and Caprice PPV
Bill.

I’m not sure that we have the answer since the PPV kit is still on the development board. After some previous kit rework time, we are now back on the project list to develop the kits that we haven’t added over the past year, so I’ll forward this question to engineering. I doubt that we’ll see a quick reply since I don’t believe they have the SS or PPV lines available to review, but we will start the research.

Just returned from ISSCA (Impala SS Club) Nationals annual event, which was in Indianapolis (for locals - Plainfield/Putnam Park/ORP/Danville) this year.

While there, I visited a performance hose supplier and came away with a set of hoses that will be test-fitted to my PPV this week. Once validated, I will post all additional information via a new thread. These hoses have the correct inverted-flare pressure joint configuration.

I am anticipating that this kit will be "universal"--it will fit production applications - ie. OE single-piston & Brembo, and Brembo conversions for all years--both PPV & SS sedan, including 6-piston front calipers.

Stay tuned!

Bill,
I appreciate your efforts on this. I am keeping an eye and this. It will be interesting to see who the company in Indy is. I worked with a company back in the late 90's for a brake upgrade on the GM W chassis.

Thanks again!

Maurice

cool , i need them for both my ppv and my ss

Waiting, watching......