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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:12 am
Posts: 149
Location: South Bend, IN
Navy Lifer wrote:

Which hose kit did you use?


Russel/Edelbrock 6922210 for G8, fit perfect, no complaints at all


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:44 am
Posts: 1364
Location: Azusa,CA
indianajoe wrote:
Navy Lifer wrote:

Which hose kit did you use?


Russel/Edelbrock 6922210 for G8, fit perfect, no complaints at all


Bill can you summarize the issue with the brake line connection at the hard line that was found with the SS. Bubble fitting Vs. Flare and what do our PPV's have? Are 11-13 different from 14+?

Have any pic of the fitting on your 11?

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Steve Walker
Azusa, CA
'11 PPV 9C3 Huron White


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Location: Canton GA
Steve and all,

First, I have NOT verified any of the specifics "alleged" by the SS owners who have been doing brake upgrades.

I only recently purchased a Russell 692210 hose kit and will get a picture and post it.

I am "confident" that the WM cars (2011-2013) have the same fitting ends as the hose kits from both Russell and Goodridge offer, as configured for the G8.

My concern was always that both hose kits were spec'd for the "standard" G8, which used a similar brake combination as found on PPV, and not the GXP, which had Brembo front calipers, same as Chevy SS and Cadillac CTS-V (common source for calipers).

Many on both this forum and SS forum have stated that they see no issues with using these hose kits--then, someone declared that the compression fittings on (their) SS were "incorrect"--they had experienced a minor leak, and found the hose kit fitting design was different--since the hose kit was for a VE (G8), this created some questions. To me, it does not make sense that the OEM would change fitting design, as the ISO bubble flare has become quite common and accepted, so I remain skeptical. I need to do some PN comparisons (again) to find out whether this is really the case.

My main issue with what IS available from Goodridge and Russell, even though it seems to work on Brembo upgrades for the various vehicles we're talking about--G8, SS (2014 rear), PPV, and anyone wishing to fit braided stainless hoses to any of these vehicles, regardless of which calipers are used, the existing hose kits have, to my knowledge, NEVER been validated on anything other than the standard G8, which used a 2-piston aluminum PBR front caliper and the same single-piston caliper found on PPV.

Previous contact with Goodridge, documented on SS Forums (and mentioned here, IIRC) indicated their "intent" is to work on kit configuration validation and/or creation of new kits that would resolve any current fitment concerns--the glacial pace on any action is telling.

If there's any way we could create ANY demand to get either supplier's interest, the problem still comes down to what these companies need to justify creating coverage for any specific application. There are other companies which can and do make custom hoses "to order", whether individually or in quantity, and I've yet to explore whether that may be viable....it is likely to be more expensive, so the option, for now, remains that of making the available G8 kit work.

Goodridge does have a PN for the Caprice PPV, but I've never been able to actually find the kit. PN 12-232

As far as the fitting configuration change between VE/WM (2013 and earlier) and VF/WM (2014 and later), I will endeavor to get an answer, rather than rely on someone else's anecdotal discovery.

I hope I've not confused matters further.....we'll get this figured out.

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Bill Harper
inov8r@windstream.net


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: Pearland, Texas
Bill,

Sorry, but I'm not 100% following you here. Are you talking about those with Caprices upgrading to SS brakes, or some other combination? I thought it was fairly well established now that the G8 brake hoses will work on the 2013 and earlier Caprice when installing the CTS-V brakes? Thank you.

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Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:30 pm
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Location: Canton GA
Gene, it can be a bit confusing, since we're talking about multiple variants of the same/similar platform.

You are correct that it is "settled" as far as the pre-2014 vehicles--the G8 kits work for the PPV 2011-2013 PPV. I'm not saying the kit is exactly what the manufacturers would have produced, considering that Goodridge lists a different/specific PN for their PPV kit--if one can actually be found and purchased.

I also do not presume that the hose kit suppliers would configure a kit for a non-standard (ie. not as configured for production) setup such as doing the Brembo upgrade to a PPV, but we've learned that there is some "flexibility" in the existing kits, which is good, even though their product lists identify only the vehicle they originally designed the kit for. The hose manufacturers are not going to produce kits for any possible combination that could be employed--we're just lucky that the G8 GT kits happen to work, but the kit won't go into catalogs with a broadened application listing unless or until it's validated on other vehicles, and I don't know if either source would even be interested in doing that.

If I still lived in SoCal, I'd do this myself, but if someone in the Los Angeles area happens to put a Russell 692210 kit on their PPV, with either stock or Brembo calipers, and then approaches Russell (via Edelbrock in Torrance CA), to show them that it DOES work, we're not certain, at this point & based on the initial response I got when I asked, whether they would willingly take any action to add PPV or SS to the listing/coverage, even if it means they would sell more of the 692210 kits. The same would go for Goodridge for some of the Midwest/Indiana/Indianapolis guys. Some of you LA guys weigh-in here, please!

An example of what I'm trying to show is the hose kits for 91-96 Caprice and 94-96 Impala SS--don't have the PN's right off the top of my head, but when you look them up, you won't find "common application" info--the Caprice kit fit the other disc/drum sedans and wagons, and the Impala kit also fits the 9C1 Caprice variant. My point is that these suppliers could be missing sales because they don't know their products actually have more possible fitments than listed in their catalogs.

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Bill Harper
inov8r@windstream.net


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: Pearland, Texas
Yes, that happens all the time. Our 98 Dakota R/T didn't show any AM brake lines, but I did discover that the Dakota R/T and Durango R/T of similar vintage took the same factory brake lines, so I ordered a set for the Durango R/T from Goodridge. They fit like a charm.

FYI, Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies is a Goodridge Dealer, as well as 'Goodridge Technical Center', for whatever that means. I ordered the kit through them, and I think they had to go to Goodridge in Europe to get them. It took a while, but I got them. If you have a P/N, you may call them:

Phone:
Order Toll Free: 1-800-688-6946 (US & Canada)
Local/International Order Line: 1-262-317-1234
Technical Questions: 1-262-317-1200

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Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:30 pm
Posts: 1472
Location: Canton GA
There are several more options to explore on hoses--I'll hold fire on that until a basic discovery process is complete. By that I mean I'm having a hard time with the idea that GM/Holden changed the compression joint specs completely between the VE/WM to VF/WN transition for MY14.

Some further investigation is now underway on this subject--I'm going to compare a 2015-2017 SS rear caliper hose with the same hose used on the PPV. Bottom line will be to hopefully confirm or refute the fitting type conundrum. What is clear is that the PPV uses the same hose (the one I've selected to compare) for all years, which suggests the WM/WN did not change to a different pressure joint spec, even if the SS, new in 2014, did.

One thing I did discover is that for PPV (which I need to confirm is the case for ALL years), all of the brake hard lines are pre-formed and assigned PN's....whether they're still available or not, it's one of those "what spares should I keep" questions, as it's highly unlikely that the companies that do this here (Classic Tube, Inline Tube) will ever produce these lines except as one-off custom--they won't be in their catalog(s). The other interesting twist on this is that the SS has NO pre-formed hard lines--the fittings are identified, and the line (tubing) is bend-to-suit...perhaps as a matter of end of production and limiting inventory requirements, Holden chose not to create more parts to deal with after ceasing production ops.

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Bill Harper
inov8r@windstream.net


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:31 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: Pearland, Texas
indianajoe wrote:
Navy Lifer wrote:

Which hose kit did you use?


Russel/Edelbrock 6922210 for G8, fit perfect, no complaints at all


Note that there is an extra '2' in the P/N noted above. The actual P/N for this hose set is 692210.

I needed ONE AN cap for another project on the race car, and I had a $50 discount voucher with Summit if I order more than $250 in parts, soooooooo, I went ahead and ordered the hose kit and front rotors for the brake project. Still not ready to execute yet, but the parts pile is getting bigger. :lol:

_________________
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:30 pm
Posts: 1472
Location: Canton GA
SLOW DOWN COWBOY

I've finally JUST gathered enough information to go "live" on the hose issue.

I'll be doing a separate post with appropriate title, but the Russell 692210 kit is a No-Go....I have proof that ALL Caprice PPV's are built with inverted-flare brake hose-to-hard line joints, and NOT ISO bubble-flare configuration as found in the Russell G8 kit. I have not, at this point, determined whether the G8 used ISO bubble-flare joints, but at this point I don't really care.

Bottom line--all PPV owners who have done an installation of aftermarket braided stainless/teflon hoses--G8 from Russell, at least, and probably the Goodridge equivalent--now have a mix of inverted flare and ISO bubble joints.....NOT GOOD.

I will be posting pictures and GM PN info as proof. Watch for the post soon.

Follow further discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2051&p=16964&sid=edaa39f21a64088cec0bdb936d52d427#p16964

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Bill Harper
inov8r@windstream.net


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:27 pm
Posts: 5
I upgraded my brakes on my 2011 Caprice and if you use the Russell Steel Flex Hose kit you'll change the hard lines from flare to bubble connection.


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