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2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:26 am
by Pursuit
I put this combination on two months ago. Thanks to GTObert and Navy Lifer. I will upload pictures and lessons learned. This set up fits under the stock steel rims.

Numbers:
Rotors, 2- ACDelco 177-1050. Actually Brembo rotors
Calipers, ACDelco 172-2287 Front Driver/left side, 172-2288 Front Passenger/right side. 2007 CTS-V calipers, re-drilled and tapped mounting ears, powder coated using Navy Lifer's design.
Caliper Banjo Bolt 2- GM 11569590
Caliper pad retainer kit 1-19264181
Brake hoses, Russell/Edelbrock 692210
Brake pads tried, three sets. Two different compounds. One compound with and without backing shims. Hawk Performance Street Performance 5.0 HB453B.585, DTC-30 HB453W.585 and Street Race HB453R.585

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:30 am
by Pursuit
Parts used

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:32 am
by Pursuit
Started out using a DA sander with 130 grit disc to rough up the rotors. I started with the new compound Hawk HPS 5.0 brake pads. Bedded them per Hawk. 6-8 stops from 60 mph to almost zero then drove for 15 minutes with very minimal braking to allow brake components to cool. Pad was very low dust but had mediocre stopping performance for my use. Next pad used was the Hawk DTC-30. This compound has about the same dust as the stock PPV pad and is more aggressive also. The bedding procedure was normal driving for 100 miles then 8-10 medium speed stops (60-almost 0), driving again for 15 minutes for components to cool. Then parked the car. Next bedding procedure was 8-10 stops from 100 to almost zero. Again driving for 15-20 minutes to let components cool. This is an entry level pad for racing and doesn't require much heat to be effective. This pad did create squeals with slow speed braking. I then switched out to the Street Race pad. Which is the same compound but the edges of the pad material are beveled and there are shims and a wear indicator installed. All pads were lubricated at contact points and between the shim and brake pad. The Street race pad generates the same amount of dust and seldom squeals.

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:59 am
by Pursuit
When I installed a new caliper mounting bolt sourced from a Camaro as a service kit of four, I found that the Camaro bolt was very close to touching the inside of the rotor. The original PPV bolt was the same 14mm thread. The PPV bolt was not a torque-to-yield bolt so I reused it. I tightened it to 30 ft. lbs. and then 90*. (I know that probably isn't the "correct" method)

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:13 am
by Pursuit
The rotor and calipers installed. I used four lengths of clear vinyl tubing to keep the brake fluid off of the powder coating. The new brake hoses will have an up and down path from the frame connection, through the strut mount and then to the caliper. I didn't want any air to hang up in a "high point". I rotated and removed the grommet out of the strut mount tab and created a path that eliminated the up and down path. I started gravity bleeding the passenger side caliper first. And I started with the inboard bleeder screw open only, closed it once I had fluid and then opened the outboard bleeder. I then closed that and repeated the procedure on the drivers side. I used a plastic hammer to loosen up any bubble stuck to the inside castings and went back to the passenger side and started again.

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:45 pm
by Navy Lifer
Pursuit wrote:Started out using a DA sander with 130 grit disc to rough up the rotors. I started with the new compound Hawk HPS 5.0 brake pads. Bedded them per Hawk. 6-8 stops from 60 mph to almost zero then drove for 15 minutes with very minimal braking to allow brake components to cool. Pad was very low dust but had mediocre stopping performance for my use. Next pad used was the Hawk DTC-30. This compound has about the same dust as the stock PPV pad and is more aggressive also. The bedding procedure was normal driving for 100 miles then 8-10 medium speed stops (60-almost 0), driving again for 15 minutes for components to cool. Then parked the car. Next bedding procedure was 8-10 stops from 100 to almost zero. Again driving for 15-20 minutes to let components cool. This is an entry level pad for racing and doesn't require much heat to be effective. This pad did create squeals with slow speed braking. I then switched out to the Street Race pad. Which is the same compound but the edges of the pad material are beveled and there are shims and a wear indicator installed. All pads were lubricated at contact points and between the shim and brake pad. The Street race pad generates the same amount of dust and seldom squeals.
Note that the 5.0 Street pad series is a newer generation product, and generally costs a little more than the previous HPS/Street and HPP/Plus friction material formulations. If you shop around on the Internet, the pads can be purchased for much less that list prices shows on the links. Some have wear squealer tips, some don't.

HP Street 5.0
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performa ... /hb453b585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HP Street/Race 5.0
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performa ... /hb453r585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DTC-30
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performa ... /hb453w585" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I recommend Flex Hone for rotor surface prep (note there are fine, medium and coarse options):
https://www.amazon.com/Brush-Research-F ... B007SOW0WC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So, which pads are on the car now, and did you re-prep the rotors between pad swaps? The OE front pad is fairly aggressive--what % of rotor wear was left with the OE/production combination--any idea?

Calipers look good--a shame to hide them behind OE steelies....

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:13 pm
by Pursuit
Bill,
First things first. Thanks for your help with everything.
Just about all of the parts were sourced through Amazon other than the caliper and banjo bolts. The HPS 5.0 pads were only on the car for maybe 2,000 miles. I did a road trip to Michigan over the 4th. They just never had the grip that I was used to with the OEM PPV pad. I did resurface the rotors with a DA sander after the HPS 5.0 pads. They really did not bite into the rotor. The DTC-30's were next up, but with a lot of brake noise, not surprised at all. (I had used that compound on my 98 B4C Camaro with 4 piston Alcons). They lasted on the Caprice for two weekends before I switched to the Street Race compound. Not 100% quiet but, I seldom hear anything. The noise I do hear decelerating quickly from above average speeds is a rotor being subjected to more friction and the tires are on edge of locking up. They don't stop turning but, boy, are they complaining.
When I get back to the car next weekend I can measure the original rotors for wear.

Maurice

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:21 pm
by Pursuit
Found this for comparison

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:35 pm
by indianajoe
Pursuit, what drilling and retapping needed to be done to make the calipers work?
I'll need front brakes soon, and this looks like a decent upgrade

Re: 2007 CTS-V Front Brembos on the PPV

Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:18 pm
by Pursuit
I had the caliper ears drilled and tapped to 14mm x 2.0

Here is what Navy Lifer has researched for us a while ago. I appreciate his time on this.


Most common approach seems to be the use of early CTS-V calipers due to their lower cost, so it is necessary to make a choice on the approach taken to do this properly--see discussion further down.

Caliper bolt sizing for Brembo conversions:

Fastener size for PPV front caliper mount to upright is M14, rear is M12.

First generation Brembo - CTS-V and G8 GXP front calipers mount with M12 x 1.75 bolts

Second generation Brembo - includes CTS-V (6-piston—also on ZL1 Camaro), 2010-2015 Camaro SS, and 14-15 SS sedan--all use M14 x 2.0 bolts for front calipers.

Fastener size for all Brembo rear calipers is M12 x 1.75

OE fastener list for Zeta platform – G8 GXP, Camaro SS, PPV, SS sedan:

PPV standard (single-piston) caliper mounts:
F – 11570092 (M14x2x51) (common with Camaro V6)
R – 92172963 (M12x1.5x40)

Brembo caliper mounting fastener list:
F – 11570788 (M14x2x56.5) (SS sedan, Camaro SS/ZL1)
R – 92139080 (M12x1.75x45) (SS sedan, also used as FRONT for G8 GXP)
R – 11515781 (M12x1.75x60) (Camaro SS)

Banjo bolts & crush washers:
Bolt - 11569590 (sourced from Camaro SS) - M10x1.0
Washer - 21012386

In the process of adding Brembo front calipers to a PPV, if using 1st design calipers (04-07 CTS-V or G8 GXP), there are two options:

1. Modify the caliper mount ears (on caliper body) by re-drilling and tapping to the M14x2.0 thread spec. This is an aluminum part—the question/concern would be whether new threads would be durable enough to mount the calipers and apply the proper torque specs without the threads yielding. It would be possible to install a threaded insert (Heli-coil or similar) for this purpose as an alternative. Use bolt PN 11570788.

2. Install a bushing in the upright positions to reduce the hole size from 14mm to 12mm—an appropriate bushing would have an OD of 18mm, so it will be necessary to open up the holes in the uprights to fit the bushings to provide the 12mm hole for the “correct” bolts – PN 92139080--note that the alternate bolt 11515781, is 15mm longer, but far less expensive. A spacer combined with the longer bolt may be a reasonable alternative.

My preference would be to use method option 1, as I believe it would ultimately be more robust--GM changed the caliper mounting to 14mm fasteners for a reason....if I had some later calipers, this would not be an issue, but I chose the early CTS-V path, so I've got to make a choice.

Torque values for mounting Brembo calipers:

Caliper bolt (F&R) 30 lb/ft +90 degrees
Brake hose fitting - 30 lb/ft
Bleed valve - 13 lb/ft

_________________
Bill Harper
inov8r@windstream.net