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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Omaha, NE area
I put this combination on two months ago. Thanks to GTObert and Navy Lifer. I will upload pictures and lessons learned. This set up fits under the stock steel rims.

Numbers:
Rotors, 2- ACDelco 177-1050. Actually Brembo rotors
Calipers, ACDelco 172-2287 Front Driver/left side, 172-2288 Front Passenger/right side. 2007 CTS-V calipers, re-drilled and tapped mounting ears, powder coated using Navy Lifer's design.
Caliper Banjo Bolt 2- GM 11569590
Caliper pad retainer kit 1-19264181
Brake hoses, Russell/Edelbrock 692210
Brake pads tried, three sets. Two different compounds. One compound with and without backing shims. Hawk Performance Street Performance 5.0 HB453B.585, DTC-30 HB453W.585 and Street Race HB453R.585

_________________
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:30 am 
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Posts: 584
Location: Omaha, NE area
Parts used


Attachments:
ACDelco rotors are made by Brembo.jpg
ACDelco rotors are made by Brembo.jpg [ 171.97 KiB | Viewed 3103 times ]
GM Banjo bolt.jpg
GM Banjo bolt.jpg [ 173.9 KiB | Viewed 3103 times ]
ACDelco Caliper Pad retainers.jpg
ACDelco Caliper Pad retainers.jpg [ 140.51 KiB | Viewed 3103 times ]

_________________
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Omaha, NE area
Started out using a DA sander with 130 grit disc to rough up the rotors. I started with the new compound Hawk HPS 5.0 brake pads. Bedded them per Hawk. 6-8 stops from 60 mph to almost zero then drove for 15 minutes with very minimal braking to allow brake components to cool. Pad was very low dust but had mediocre stopping performance for my use. Next pad used was the Hawk DTC-30. This compound has about the same dust as the stock PPV pad and is more aggressive also. The bedding procedure was normal driving for 100 miles then 8-10 medium speed stops (60-almost 0), driving again for 15 minutes for components to cool. Then parked the car. Next bedding procedure was 8-10 stops from 100 to almost zero. Again driving for 15-20 minutes to let components cool. This is an entry level pad for racing and doesn't require much heat to be effective. This pad did create squeals with slow speed braking. I then switched out to the Street Race pad. Which is the same compound but the edges of the pad material are beveled and there are shims and a wear indicator installed. All pads were lubricated at contact points and between the shim and brake pad. The Street race pad generates the same amount of dust and seldom squeals.


Attachments:
Hawk Street race pad same compound as the DTC30 pad.jpg
Hawk Street race pad same compound as the DTC30 pad.jpg [ 192.33 KiB | Viewed 3103 times ]
Hawk HB453 B.585 Street 5.0 pads.jpg
Hawk HB453 B.585 Street 5.0 pads.jpg [ 157.63 KiB | Viewed 3103 times ]
Hawk HB453 R.585 Street Race pads.jpg
Hawk HB453 R.585 Street Race pads.jpg [ 127.77 KiB | Viewed 3103 times ]

_________________
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Omaha, NE area
When I installed a new caliper mounting bolt sourced from a Camaro as a service kit of four, I found that the Camaro bolt was very close to touching the inside of the rotor. The original PPV bolt was the same 14mm thread. The PPV bolt was not a torque-to-yield bolt so I reused it. I tightened it to 30 ft. lbs. and then 90*. (I know that probably isn't the "correct" method)


Attachments:
Camaro Caliper Bolt barely touches rotor.jpg
Camaro Caliper Bolt barely touches rotor.jpg [ 129.54 KiB | Viewed 3101 times ]
Original PPV Caliper bolt versus Camaro Caliper bolt.jpg
Original PPV Caliper bolt versus Camaro Caliper bolt.jpg [ 125.34 KiB | Viewed 3101 times ]

_________________
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Omaha, NE area
The rotor and calipers installed. I used four lengths of clear vinyl tubing to keep the brake fluid off of the powder coating. The new brake hoses will have an up and down path from the frame connection, through the strut mount and then to the caliper. I didn't want any air to hang up in a "high point". I rotated and removed the grommet out of the strut mount tab and created a path that eliminated the up and down path. I started gravity bleeding the passenger side caliper first. And I started with the inboard bleeder screw open only, closed it once I had fluid and then opened the outboard bleeder. I then closed that and repeated the procedure on the drivers side. I used a plastic hammer to loosen up any bubble stuck to the inside castings and went back to the passenger side and started again.


Attachments:
IMG_20160610_144757784_HDR.jpg
IMG_20160610_144757784_HDR.jpg [ 244.04 KiB | Viewed 3101 times ]
IMG_20160610_140539445_HDR.jpg
IMG_20160610_140539445_HDR.jpg [ 176.06 KiB | Viewed 3101 times ]
IMG_20160610_145347442_HDR.jpg
IMG_20160610_145347442_HDR.jpg [ 199.75 KiB | Viewed 3101 times ]

_________________
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:30 pm
Posts: 1341
Location: Canton GA
Pursuit wrote:
Started out using a DA sander with 130 grit disc to rough up the rotors. I started with the new compound Hawk HPS 5.0 brake pads. Bedded them per Hawk. 6-8 stops from 60 mph to almost zero then drove for 15 minutes with very minimal braking to allow brake components to cool. Pad was very low dust but had mediocre stopping performance for my use. Next pad used was the Hawk DTC-30. This compound has about the same dust as the stock PPV pad and is more aggressive also. The bedding procedure was normal driving for 100 miles then 8-10 medium speed stops (60-almost 0), driving again for 15 minutes for components to cool. Then parked the car. Next bedding procedure was 8-10 stops from 100 to almost zero. Again driving for 15-20 minutes to let components cool. This is an entry level pad for racing and doesn't require much heat to be effective. This pad did create squeals with slow speed braking. I then switched out to the Street Race pad. Which is the same compound but the edges of the pad material are beveled and there are shims and a wear indicator installed. All pads were lubricated at contact points and between the shim and brake pad. The Street race pad generates the same amount of dust and seldom squeals.

Note that the 5.0 Street pad series is a newer generation product, and generally costs a little more than the previous HPS/Street and HPP/Plus friction material formulations. If you shop around on the Internet, the pads can be purchased for much less that list prices shows on the links. Some have wear squealer tips, some don't.

HP Street 5.0
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performa ... /hb453b585

HP Street/Race 5.0
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performa ... /hb453r585

DTC-30
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performa ... /hb453w585

I recommend Flex Hone for rotor surface prep (note there are fine, medium and coarse options):
https://www.amazon.com/Brush-Research-F ... B007SOW0WC

So, which pads are on the car now, and did you re-prep the rotors between pad swaps? The OE front pad is fairly aggressive--what % of rotor wear was left with the OE/production combination--any idea?

Calipers look good--a shame to hide them behind OE steelies....

_________________
Bill Harper
inov8r@windstream.net


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Omaha, NE area
Bill,
First things first. Thanks for your help with everything.
Just about all of the parts were sourced through Amazon other than the caliper and banjo bolts. The HPS 5.0 pads were only on the car for maybe 2,000 miles. I did a road trip to Michigan over the 4th. They just never had the grip that I was used to with the OEM PPV pad. I did resurface the rotors with a DA sander after the HPS 5.0 pads. They really did not bite into the rotor. The DTC-30's were next up, but with a lot of brake noise, not surprised at all. (I had used that compound on my 98 B4C Camaro with 4 piston Alcons). They lasted on the Caprice for two weekends before I switched to the Street Race compound. Not 100% quiet but, I seldom hear anything. The noise I do hear decelerating quickly from above average speeds is a rotor being subjected to more friction and the tires are on edge of locking up. They don't stop turning but, boy, are they complaining.
When I get back to the car next weekend I can measure the original rotors for wear.

Maurice

_________________
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof


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 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Omaha, NE area
Found this for comparison


Attachments:
brake-pad-compounds-graph.jpg
brake-pad-compounds-graph.jpg [ 94.34 KiB | Viewed 3053 times ]

_________________
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:12 am
Posts: 142
Location: South Bend, IN
Pursuit, what drilling and retapping needed to be done to make the calipers work?
I'll need front brakes soon, and this looks like a decent upgrade


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:39 pm
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Location: Omaha, NE area
I had the caliper ears drilled and tapped to 14mm x 2.0

Here is what Navy Lifer has researched for us a while ago. I appreciate his time on this.


Most common approach seems to be the use of early CTS-V calipers due to their lower cost, so it is necessary to make a choice on the approach taken to do this properly--see discussion further down.

Caliper bolt sizing for Brembo conversions:

Fastener size for PPV front caliper mount to upright is M14, rear is M12.

First generation Brembo - CTS-V and G8 GXP front calipers mount with M12 x 1.75 bolts

Second generation Brembo - includes CTS-V (6-piston—also on ZL1 Camaro), 2010-2015 Camaro SS, and 14-15 SS sedan--all use M14 x 2.0 bolts for front calipers.

Fastener size for all Brembo rear calipers is M12 x 1.75

OE fastener list for Zeta platform – G8 GXP, Camaro SS, PPV, SS sedan:

PPV standard (single-piston) caliper mounts:
F – 11570092 (M14x2x51) (common with Camaro V6)
R – 92172963 (M12x1.5x40)

Brembo caliper mounting fastener list:
F – 11570788 (M14x2x56.5) (SS sedan, Camaro SS/ZL1)
R – 92139080 (M12x1.75x45) (SS sedan, also used as FRONT for G8 GXP)
R – 11515781 (M12x1.75x60) (Camaro SS)

Banjo bolts & crush washers:
Bolt - 11569590 (sourced from Camaro SS) - M10x1.0
Washer - 21012386

In the process of adding Brembo front calipers to a PPV, if using 1st design calipers (04-07 CTS-V or G8 GXP), there are two options:

1. Modify the caliper mount ears (on caliper body) by re-drilling and tapping to the M14x2.0 thread spec. This is an aluminum part—the question/concern would be whether new threads would be durable enough to mount the calipers and apply the proper torque specs without the threads yielding. It would be possible to install a threaded insert (Heli-coil or similar) for this purpose as an alternative. Use bolt PN 11570788.

2. Install a bushing in the upright positions to reduce the hole size from 14mm to 12mm—an appropriate bushing would have an OD of 18mm, so it will be necessary to open up the holes in the uprights to fit the bushings to provide the 12mm hole for the “correct” bolts – PN 92139080--note that the alternate bolt 11515781, is 15mm longer, but far less expensive. A spacer combined with the longer bolt may be a reasonable alternative.

My preference would be to use method option 1, as I believe it would ultimately be more robust--GM changed the caliper mounting to 14mm fasteners for a reason....if I had some later calipers, this would not be an issue, but I chose the early CTS-V path, so I've got to make a choice.

Torque values for mounting Brembo calipers:

Caliper bolt (F&R) 30 lb/ft +90 degrees
Brake hose fitting - 30 lb/ft
Bleed valve - 13 lb/ft

_________________
Bill Harper
inov8r@windstream.net

_________________
Maurice Sheil

mhsheil@gmail.com

2011 Caprice Phantom Black 9C3
1995 9C1 Caprice
1986 Caprice Estate wagon
1996 GMC Sierra C1500
1974 SJ Grand Prix 455 well optioned with factory moon roof


Top
 Profile  
 
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