Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Drivetrain discussion including Transmission, Differential, Driveshaft, and related items.
undrcvrppv
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Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by undrcvrppv » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:29 pm

Anyone install a zl1 rear cradle in a ppv yet was looking at maybe buying one off camaro 5 and doing the upgrade if there isn't to much modification. I thought I saw someone put one in a g8 and there wasn't a ton of things to change beside the driveshaft axles and swaybar. Let me know your input

kevink
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:55 pm

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by kevink » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:43 pm

It has been done and should be the same as a G8. Do some searching and I'm sure you will find the examples I saw. You have to cut the spare tire well for sway bar clearance. You may be able to use the PPV sway bar and get away with not cutting it... not sure. Nextgenbuilt put one in a PPV. You might want to give them a call if you have specific questions.
2011 9C3: 11.48 @118. World's fastest naturally aspirated Caprice PPV.

s/c'd cav
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Location: PHOENIX AZ

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by s/c'd cav » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:09 pm

same work as a G8 or SS , all been done

it will raise the back of the car up some from what i remember

enginelord
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Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:57 am

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by enginelord » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:04 am

This is an old post, but here are my questions to this post, (will probably post same in other post sections) 1) what would be the reason for using the ZL1 cradle? I understand the carrier upgrade. And in theory stronger axles. But why not just the ZL1 carrier and better axles. Why the cradle too? The ZL1 axles will not work right? 2) Another question > the '16up Camaro carries are different, will they work? If not, why not? Can different axles and some mods make them work? I have found they are actually in abundance and cheaper? My plans are to push it to 800+ hp. I've seen the aftermarket ford 9" designs, but much pricier than the ZL1 carriers. I'm not looking for better handling, just a rear end set-up that can handle up to 1000 hp. Frankly, who do I talk to that has the baddest Caprice out there. Ideas/recipes on frame supports and trans-back drive-train needed. I've got the motor and trans covered. At this point super hard drag-strip launches are a possibility but not my target objective. Not a drag car,(otherwise I'd just completely frame, tub and fab a 4 link 9"). Not a road racer. May try both at times just for fun, but really just an insane Camaro/Vette eating street rod is the objective. Looking for answers on how far I can push this chassis. Found many sources for Camaro in this category, but very little for a Caprice pushed this far. I know not easy to answer questions, but thought I'd try them here. :twisted:

kevink
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:55 pm

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by kevink » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:40 am

Just go by what the Camaro, SS, and G8 guys do. They are the same car as far as you're concerned. There aren't many or any super fast Caprices out there, but that's because there just aren't many of them out there. If you never take it to the dragstrip and are only driving it on the street, you don't need very fancy parts to make it live. At 800 whp on the street, you're probably fine with a good driveshaft, axles, a Camaro rear with a good diff. You may not even need to do any of this if you have a crappy tire on it and the car doesn't hook at all.
2011 9C3: 11.48 @118. World's fastest naturally aspirated Caprice PPV.

s/c'd cav
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Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 8:12 am
Location: PHOENIX AZ

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by s/c'd cav » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:13 am

to fit the zl1 diff in our cradle , there is alot of cutting and welding required

6th gen is a whole different platform , not to mention they are geared different

enginelord
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:57 am

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by enginelord » Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:12 am

Both replies were helpful. Thank you. I did some checking around, aligned with like Kevin said, up to around 700 hp without too many good traction lauches, but, with axles, Truetrac and driveshaft.... I could of made it happen. At least for a while. (lol). Still, like I said .. not a track car, but couple dozen track launches plus a lot of street beating.. AND not sure of the 'future' horsepower, + possible/likely spray. (stroker low end and spray? Would be sick, but maybe a little too sick). Anyhow, I bought the ZL1 carrier. AND the ZL1 cradle. 'There' is where I had trouble with finding differences in cradle/arm weak points. I wanted to 'fab' nodular carrier into the PPV cradle. (why are only our upper arms aluminum?) Fab for the clearance issue with the ZL1 bigger 'nodular iron' case do-able but... F it, Zl1 cradle it is. Lets try and reduce wheel hop. ('hop' reduction yet another advantage of the new gen set-up). (not liking any 1/2" or so raise though with Camaro cradle installed)(maybe I'll find a way around that). After all the ZL1t design is what was used with LSA and 6L90 anyhow. (Although neither are rated for 800+ horsepower from what I found. Not even close as far as GM is concerned). But minimal starting point for that HP range reliably I figured. After essentially taking a class in the new '16 up Track-pack ZL1 rear end/cradle, damn I came so close to wanting to attempt it. (oddly enough, a bit cheaper than '10-'15 ZL1 cradles, likely due to their less swap-friendly complexities, but yet far... superior). I studied the electric control capabilities of it (and wiring diagram, control, etc) and was so impressed. BUT.. outside the full lock mode, most of it's technology applies to aggressive 'track-like' operations I read, like powering out of turns as good as apparently technologically possible.. Wow. (maybe just buy a new ZL1 huh? I wish). I compromised. Parts pile is growing. Certainly not going to be the baddest PPV likely, but should be in the neighborhood. (having some trouble finding the sickest PPV's out there to use as template, time is money and I have spent way too much time it feels learning stuff some others already know)(and I haven't even started the actual build). But like it has been said.... "follow the G8, SS, Camaro boys". (solid advice). It is an all performance related build plan so far. Still sporting the stripped-down, electrically half-funtional, pop/doughnut sticky, damaged, not detailed (yet) interior. LOL.

kevink
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Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:55 pm

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by kevink » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:06 pm

enginelord wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:12 am
(having some trouble finding the sickest PPV's out there to use as template, time is money and I have spent way too much time it feels learning stuff some others already know)(and I haven't even started the actual build). But like it has been said.... "follow the G8, SS, Camaro boys".
There is a top 10 fast PPV list on facebook (I'm on it for the time being :))

https://m.facebook.com/groups/168485586 ... rce=result

It's the only list that I know of. You can start your search there, but honestly I'm not sure what info you're having a hard time finding. Definitely look at 5th gen Camaros. There are more fast 5th gens than PPVs, SSs, and G8s combined.

Regarding wheel hop... you can eliminate it with the right parts. My car dead hooks and goes 1.60/high 1.50 60 foots. I'm not really making much power.
enginelord wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:12 am
why are only our upper arms aluminum?)
The early PPVs had steel upper arms and the later cars had aluminum. I think the change happened in 2014. G8s were steel, SSs were all aluminum as far as I can tell, and I'm pretty sure Camaros were all steel.
2011 9C3: 11.48 @118. World's fastest naturally aspirated Caprice PPV.

enginelord
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:57 am

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by enginelord » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:09 am

Yet why? Yes all Camaros are steel.... All SS's are steel, all G8'sa are steel from what I've found. ALL years. I'm guessing it's an Aussie thing. (I know, G8's and SS Aussie). (stronger or weaker, anyone have issue with serious track launches with upgrade ppv dif? I have rad 'wheel-hop' from GM. One reason of several for the reason/progression upgrade for the '16-up 1LE/Zl1 track-pack. The question originated on how strong are our cradles/arms? No matter, i have made the upgrade to ZL1 cradle/diff. Again a compromise from what is available. (9" upgrade for over 7K?, love it yet leave it for my level). No longer a test dummy the the stock carrier. (who knows where this build may eventually lead...) But from what I have learned, with an upgraded Yukon or Detroit locker lSD diff. , V8 camaro diff housing and quality gear set. ('round $1600-$1900 total w/o labor....) most cars are good. (long term reliability will be determined by your gear set Tech. But If you are foolish 'nuf to push further, A ZL1 carrier or better needed.
Yet If you insist on stock 3.27 or up Camaro carrier build.. The sickest I found was the "OS Giken" carrier that will 95% 'r' so "lock the diff" at hard launch. But just the diff no gears best price found was $1800. Just diff is only available 3.45 or up though I believe. (I think we could get a 10-15 ZL1 nodular carrier to do ok) Again.. 100% .. or even 60% track is a race car. Not this build. Clutch pack diffs have a level of abuse' point. I like 'lockers'... but I'm old... yet.. new gen has both. Electronic 'lockers' I like. But none for the gm rear set-up like ours. Unlesss you own a '16-up Zl1 track-pack drivetrain. Sorry for the droning on' venting as I learn.

enginelord
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:57 am

Re: Zl1 rear diff or cradle in a ppv?

Post by enginelord » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:21 am

Oh, and by the way... my '11 is aluminum. G8's, SS's etc are all steel from what I found... PPV's only aluma-cast I've found. Again... why? weaker I'm assuming? Maybe cast alum. cheaper in Aussie land that year? 'Wheel-hop is no good. 'n'..k' mr. Mackey... lol.
It 'is' a business after all right?. How was the alloy market in Australia in 2010? LOL

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