oil cooler delete - parts information

Tech discussions on the L77 6.0L V8.
Navy Lifer
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oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by Navy Lifer » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:19 pm

Since there's already a few who have deleted the oil cooler (RPO KC4), I thought it would be useful to describe the parts actually needed to accomplish the task, and throw in some other "things to think about" for good measure.

Part quantities required are 1 (one) each except as noted.

I have not actually done cooler delete, and have no plans to at this point. Still, the information may be helpful to someone.

The cooler setup does have some coolant system changes to be made to do it the right way, and there are 3 parts (4 by quantity) needed on the oil side to install in place of the cooler assembly.

OIL SYSTEM
1. Cover (commonly called a "block off plate" in error) - the G8 part is PN 12577903

2. Gasket (between pan rail and cover) - PN 12611384

3. Bolt (2 required) - PN 11588714 - note: bolts on PPV now MAY work, but I suspect they are longer

COOLING SYSTEM
Only two items are needed to reconfigure the KC4 installation to what was found on the G8.

4. Upper (radiator inlet) hose - PN 92215927 replaces what is on PPV now. There were 2 hose PN's, with a VIN break in 2009, and the hose listed (above) is the closest in configuration to the PPV, based on available information. I have not compared the hose routing, and there MAY be another hose that is more correct, so I'm assuming this hose will work. The earlier G8 upper hose is PN 92157816. (Maybe C.P. can research this against the latest version of WM Holden CapriceV without KC4 to validate the accuracy of this information)

NOTE: This hose appears to now be discontinued. Use Gates 23450 or equivalent (G8 6.0 upper radiator hose)

5. Plug (engine coolant drain hole) - ie. threaded "freeze" plug on block - PN 11609289 - this replaces the special plug/fitting on PPV with KC4

NOTE: Plug from GM is discontinued or has a PN change - research/update pending

Parts illustration: https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/auto-part ... ooler-scat" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now for the "something to think about" scenario:

If the oil cooler is removed and not replaced, whether for installing headers or some other reason, one thing that might be a good idea is to add some sort of oil temperature monitoring. In the C5 Corvette (not sure about 98-02 Camaro) the LS oil system had a cover (item 1. above) that included a temperature sensor mounting port.

The cover is PN 12551587
The sensor is PN 12608814
The sensor connector is PN 88987993

I do not know what the sensor output is (electrically), so it's not possible to know if this would be compatible with any known GM or aftermarket electric temp gauge, or if it simply was an input to the LS ECM that then displayed on the instrument panel or in the C5 DIC.

I also do not know if oil temp is currently an input to the PPV ECM and whether it could be brought out to display on a gauge or DIC in the PPV, if the parameter is monitored or an ECM input. The existence of the sensor port (C5 version) might allow use of an aftermarket sensor and gauge if a proper place to mount it can be created.

Perhaps a digital display, such as something from Dakota Digital, might be better.

Round
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/ ... prd326.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dakotadigital.com/img/smalldimensionthin.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rectangular
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/ ... prd325.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dakotadigital.com/img/odydimensions.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Point is, if the cooler is going to be deleted for any reason, monitoring oil temp seems to make sense.

Anyone with different info or thoughts, please weigh-in!!!

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Crazy Paul
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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by Crazy Paul » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:35 am

Navy Lifer wrote: 4. Upper (radiator inlet) hose -
PN 92215927[/b] replaces what is on PPV now.
The earlier G8 upper hose is PN 92157816.

Correct.
V8 up to MY 2009.5 = 92157816
V8 from MY 2009.5 = 92215927
Navy Lifer wrote: I also do not know if oil temp is currently an input to the PPV ECM and whether it could be brought out to display on a gauge or DIC in the PPV, if the parameter is monitored or an ECM input.
There's an oil temperature sensor already in the side of the oilpan as part of the oil life monitoring system. Engineering Mode should be able to display the engine oil temp on demand.

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elc32955
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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by elc32955 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:10 pm

Just as a general info item, the on-board sensors can display a heck of a lot of information via the OBD-II port. The OBDlink program that I've got for my phone uses data from a wireless bluetooth adapter into the OBD-II port and can display literally hundereds of parameters, all logged from the engine real-time. It will do engine oil temperature (I checked). Now, it's not the same as a hard-wired gauge, but at least for testing and validation it would be an asset. Some people drive with the additional gauge bank full time on a non-activated older smartphone, Bluetooth still works so that becomes their second dashboard.

Food for thought....

Eric
System Manager and your tourguide for the day. Caprice Alumni, former owner of a 2011 Caprice 9C3 with a Rotofab CAI and front radiator cover, 3.45 LSD Camaro rear diff, Chris Henry performance tune, G8 GT 18" Enkei rims w/Holden lions, custom SLP axle-back muffler set with tips, Holden WM Caprice factory spoiler, Holden SSV leather steering wheel and leather shift knob, Whelen Alpha-12Q airhorn amp. G8 GT rear seat swap, AVS Ventshades.

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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by IDLife Caprice » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:28 am

I am going to throw my .02c in this thread since this seems to be the one everyone is going to in an effort to remove their oil coolers.

One of the leading reasons of DOD lifter failures is high temp oil breakdown. I have now tracked half a dozen Caprice PPVs from different departments and they all say the same thing when investigating why they needed $8600 in Customer Paid repairs to rebuild the stock engine from camshaft and lifter failures.

The problem is that these cars already have inadequate cooling... wanna see? Sit idling in the hot summer day til your A/C cuts off at 244 degrees water temp. This is when the police are typically on the side of the road idling before putting their foot into the throttle to catch a speeder... shearing the already broken-down oil and destroying the engine, one WOT application at a time.

If you are going to remove the oil cooler to make room for a header that will without a doubt increase the under hood temps, at least install the Tahoe front mount remote cooler assembly.

Or, be ready to build a new engine and remove the DOD/AFM system.
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Navy Lifer
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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by Navy Lifer » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:49 am

don't get me wrong--the oil cooler is there for a reason, but where is the oil analysis that says, with an 8-quart capacity, that the oil is "breaking down"?

Oils today are "pretty good", even non-synthetic, and there are probably vehicles with LS & AFM both with & without oil coolers--G8 6.0 did not have an oil cooler--and AFM lifter failures, while common, do seem to be random and not at the level of epidemic....I'd be more inclined to call it a design issue and not blame oil or oil temp as the culprits.

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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by CrashTestDummy » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:21 pm

I'm kind of starting to wonder if an oil/air cooler might be a better bet down the road. You'd move the heat out of the cooling system, and eliminate a potential source of coolant on the oil or oil in the coolant should that cooler rupture internally.

The NNBS Tahoe PPV has an external oil cooler, so you have the parts to get the connection to the side of the oil pan, an at least some plumbing to get lines at least to the front of the engine where braided lines could take over to the front of the car.

Hmmmmmm. I'll have to climb under our Tahoe now to have a look. That would certainly free up some space under there for more header options. Aren't G8 exhausts a drop-in, except for the cooler interference?
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
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1995 DGGM Impala SS
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1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
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Navy Lifer
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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by Navy Lifer » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:49 pm

Gene, I could be wrong, but I suspect that the reason for the water/oil heat exchanger is to help with aerodynamics. Closing up the front of the car was more important than the method that the engineers might have preferred for cooling fluids other than engine coolant.

The real question will be "is there a place to position an air/oil cooler that will ensure it functions as intended"--without disrupting the as-designed air flow management?

There are surely other considerations--sometimes an air/oil heat exchanger may be seen as over-cooling, so the water/oil unit is meant to create a stable cooling "delta", for various reasons, I'm guessing.

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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by leadfart » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:58 pm

I haven't had an issue in 10k, without the cooler, but then, it's not in police service, either. :lol: When something breaks on the blown L77, I will build a bad to the bone, LS3 variant, to go in it.

I will rule the sleepers! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Bob Dannelley
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CrashTestDummy
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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by CrashTestDummy » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:03 pm

Yeah, there is the 'warming' effect of getting the oil to temp quicker by running it by warm water as the coolant comes up to temp, but I'll usually not have that issue here. That, and I think there may be a valve in the cooler line adapter on the Tahoe, but I'm not certain there. Seeing as how the Tahoe and Caprice operate side by side in many departments, and in many climates, I'd not worry about that too much. I'd think, especially where I live, getting the oil cool would be a bigger issue than getting or keeping it too cool. But I'm, of course, no Automotive Engineer. There's a lot of things done on these cars for 1. warranty support, and 2. cost, so I'm not sure where either cooler falls within the scale of drivetrain life vs. costs.

It's still something to consider, and I'm genuinely concerned about a leaking oil/water heat exchanger. I can see the puddle of oil under the car, when an air/oil cooler malfunctions, but how would one know about the water/oil exchanger until it was really too late.

As far as getting the cooler into the airstream, one can get a cooler with it's own fans. It's just things to think about. The immediate work on the car is replacing all the worn/broken bits from it's service life while parts are still available. Then, I"ll be concentrating on the suspension later this year, and maybe engine mods next, so there's time.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?

CrashTestDummy
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Re: oil cooler delete - parts information

Post by CrashTestDummy » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:53 pm

Turns out the Tahoe PPV oil cooler goes to the radiator, so it, too, is water/oil. BUT, the hard lines come up between the engine and the PS reservoir, then turns into rubber lines up to the radiator. Perfect spot to cut the lines and add AN fittings then go forward from there.
Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas
2012 Caprice 9C1
1992 B4C 1LE Camaro
2010 Tahoe PPV (her car)
1995 DGGM Impala SS
1996 BBB Impala SS (11-second DD)
1985 Firebird - 310 LS1 C Prepared autocross car.
And some others
Do YOU have my SPID?

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